Old Weather Forum
Home Port: Welcome to Old Weather => Old Weather
and Zooniverse News => Topic started by: DJ_59 on 11 October 2010,
04:30:56
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Here you are, logging a history of weather trends from nearly
one hundred years ago and reading the handwriting of men long
gone. How did you get here? What drew you to the Old Weather
project?
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I saw a story about this project on Discovery News and thought that
it looked interesting. Did a Google search and found the site, read
about it and joined. I thought it would be interesting to see what the
individual ships were doing during this time period, instead of just
getting the general overall picture from history books. Have only just
started today, but I think the longer I keep working on a particular
ship, the better the picture I will have about the the ship itself, how
the crew worked the ship, daily life aboard the ship, and even maybe how
the mission of the ship fit into the grand scheme of things. Better
than reading a general history because the logs make the ship come
alive.
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I saw a post on BoingBoing and was intrigued.
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Welcome to you both!
Hgmarin: I was just talking with one
of the Science Team members this morning about exactly what you're
talking about. He's a historian, and he's done a lot of research
and a lot of writing, but he was talking about how it's a completely
different thing to read these log sheets, written by hand. And
it's also amazing to go through the day to day "life" of a ship you
would otherwise only be able to find certain details about, like when
they were in battles. And even then it's usually only a small
mention, until the ship's involvement in the battle was particularly
key. During beta testing we were all working on The Invincible,
which exploded, split in two and then sank quickly by both the bow and
the stern. That was at the Battle of Jutland, by the way.
Seeing footage of the ship on a documentary was surreal, but no more so
than reading the logs. This is a very special project for people
who feel history.
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Hi all, I'm Cunimb, aka Mike. I was a meterological observer in the
RN during the 60's, 70's and early 80's and so drawn to this project
though I cant remember for the life of me how I got here! Its
certainly fascinating stuff but I do wonder about the accuracy of the
observations. I shall enjoy working through the log books, especially
the remarks which will bring back many memories, some of them good!
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Found project via BBC News Report.
As an ex Merchant Mariner
(P&O / Shell Tankers circa 1980s) was intrigued to read old log
books so similar to the ones that I completed 65 years later. I'm
relieved that nobody has to transcribe all the weather reports I
returned for all those years (ours were far more detailed and
transmitted 6 hourly back to the Met Office).
Met Office returns were
either a pain in the nautical bum, or a relief on an otherwise dull
watch. Also, a welcome bit of traffic for the Radio Officer.
The most
fun reading was sea water temperature using a "rubber bucket" dunked
from the bridge wing on a long line. In windy conditions often difficult
to get the damn thing into the water instead of rapping on the
captain's window. Amusing tales of lost thermometers as cadets put them
into the buckets before throwing them into the sea - instead of afterwards.
I must now admit to creatively guessing at some sea water temperatures - especially at night!
You
could usually tell when an officer actually measured the sea water
temperature because it would suddenly jump several degrees after days of
people copying it down from the previous report.
Other
dodgy/difficult readings were cloud types and cover during hours of
darkness and also sea/swell direction and height in the dark (and
sometimes by day).
Another source of diversion and fun deep sea was
filling in the Whale and Dolphin spotting log book - especially the
drawings - concentric circles for the one that got away!
Happy times...
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I came in through a BBC story. I'm an American but I get most of my
world news from the BBC. I have this aversion to the type of advertising
that you run into on American news sources. AAAAAAAaaaanyway, I saw the
story,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11532534
and followed the wind on into the program.
Being
a fan of poetry, I'd been reading Wilfrend Owen and Rupert Brooke
recently so anything that mentioned the First World War was probably
going to be able to reel me in fairly easily. Now I can't stop coming
back. I wake up in the morning, check the messages. Log a page or two,
get ready for work. Talk about the Minotaur and naval history until my
co-workers are sick of me and want to throw me to the sharks, come home
and spend some more time on board.
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I
came in through a BBC story. I'm an American but I get most of my world
news from the BBC. I have this aversion to the type of advertising that
you run into on American news sources.
Can
I get an AMEN to that! BBC all the way here in (well, near)
Seattle, WA, USA. Because CNN, MSNBC and Fox make me crazy.
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By the way, welcome aboard Cunimb, ShedMonkey and Mister Meaux!
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Thank you, DJ_59. It's good to be here.
It's also nice to
know that I'm not the only one driven off by the constant glut of
advertising. I no longer own a television because of it. I'd rather do
something like this anyway. A choice between watching a string of
talking heads every 8 to 10 minutes trying to pick my pocket OR
following a long-gone ship across the South China Sea to Kobe and
Nagasaki while watching history unfold at my fingertips AND helping with
an amazing world-wide weather program with a definite goal that matters
at the same time? Hmmmmmmm. I'll take a dip in the bay and risk a
typhoon any day.
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I participated in the Surfacestations.org project that looked at the
weather stations in the US Historical Climate Network for compliance
with siting specifications. Sea surface temperatures have been the
subject of some debate as well and I recently heard of this
project. Having also participated in GalaxyZoo, I knew you would
be doing a good job with this valuable information so I want to help.
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I'm a science nerd. Having joined in Galaxy zoo since 2007, I enjoy
the experience doing some little tasks while can learn a lot of
knowledge and do the real science. So when I saw the link on the
Zooiverse, I clicked it immediately.;D
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Welcome libad and mycroft.
I'm here all the time now, but
I'll always have a soft spot for Galaxy Zoo. It basically saved
my life. Moon Zoo, as well, later on.
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I saw a link on Galaxyzoo and had to check it out. I am more
interested in this than the rest of the sites on Galaxyzoo. I am
currently Captain of the Welland.
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Saw it in Daily Telegraph newspaper. As I'm also working on Galaxy
Zoo, I put a link on that forum as the newspaper article also mentioned
Galaxy Zoo. I have been looking forward to taking part since then
and now I'm here, I'm finding it absolutely fascinating
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I fell into a wormhole from Hubble Zoo...... ::) :D
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Ah, the Hubble Zoo wormhole ! ;) ;D
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Let us hope the hubble zoo worm doesn't find it and escape!
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Hey, don't close that wormhole. It's a great way to beat the traffic in your Zoo to Zoo commute.
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Heard about Old Weather on BBC Radio 4 quite by accident. The
minute I saw the logs I wanted to transcribe them. Hope I'll be
able to speed those weather reports on their way - a great way to fill
my spare time on a rainy day (or even a sunny one as now).
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Welcome aboard, Veero. You're right, it IS a great way to fill spare time. It doesn't take long to become addicted.
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I found the site through the National Archives (uk) website - link
direct from the front page. I mainly look at Army records so this is a
nice change and intresting ;D
Me's the captain of the
'Roxburgh' and looking to add to the 37 very able crew members - we at
present on our way back (well out of) from New York - so jump a board -
we do get to sink a uboat in 1918, should be hidden gem's to find!!
P.S we are only in sept 1916 (3% complete)
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I came here through a posting at Universe Today
http://www.universetoday.com/75640/new-galaxy-zoo-project-crowd-sources-old-climate-data/
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You are welcome GHFM and Jens. :D
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We are curious to know how people learned about the Old Weather project.
If you are willing, please tell us here.
Thanks!
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I don't recall any more. I think it was an article I read online somewhere.
But - if you're curious to know in general, maybe you could add this as an optional field on the signup page?
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Ages ago, through the BBC but I can't remember if it was the radio or the news website.
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I think I first heard about Zooniverse on NPR, but didn't
visit. Then heard or read about it again, probably one of the
astronomy projects, and checked it out. Found this project and
have stuck with it. When I need a change I go to one of the other
projects.
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I heard about Zooniverse from a CBC series called Recivilization
with Don Tapscott.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/More+Shows/ReCivilization/ID/2263143378/
about two years ago. I looked over the projects and saw OW and said to
myself, this is for me! Even HMS Blenheim logs didn't discourage
me ;D
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One of my friends told me about it. We both worked in the Yukon
Weather Centre together and we were both "fired" when the office was
shut down in 1998. Let's hear it for austerity... Bob was very
active with a number of environmental organizations, and I'm sure he
heard about it through them.
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I think I read about it in EOS, a weekly geophysical newspaper.
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I read a BBC article in October 2010, took a look at the Zooniverse
website, and chose Old Weather because at the time, it was the only
project not related to outer space.
Somehow, I didn't discover the forum until April 2011.
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The BBC's "Bang goes the theory" featuring citizens science.
Went to Zooniverse to check the different projects, noticed Old Weather and never looked back. :)
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Probably Science News. If not that, Smithsonian.
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Hmmm. I was a beta-tester for Old Weather. :)
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I'd heard of galaxy zoo, I forget where now, and was playing with
it; the idea of citizen scientists fascinated me. But my
visual/spatial challenges made it less than fun. When the
announced OW, I sampled it and fell in love. :)
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BBC Radio 4 science program had a segment about OW.
Although I
had had a go with Planet Hunters previously so I was aware of the
Zooniverse. I stopped this as I got a bit bored with it and also not
certain I knew what I was doing. I still periodically kick myself for
not checking out the other projects available then as I could have got
involved with OW earlier!
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Radio 4 - PM programme I think. It was pure luck as I didn't
normally listen to it then, but I was in the car and had the radio
on. Came home, had a look, signed up, been addicted ever since!
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I learned of this oldweather.org through an article in Scientific American's February 2012 issue .
I
have a great interest in Weather for several reasons: I taught Science
for 38 years in the Williamsville (near Niagara Falls, NY) School
District. I have been part of the Natl Weather Service Spotters Net for
18 years - measuring snow and rain and reporting it each day from a
registered station in my back yard, and as a sailor on Lake Ontario I
DEPEND on weather. The logs are fun, I'm used to keeping my OWN.
About a year ago I got 'convinced' to transcribe and edit logs and have spent most of my OW time there lately.
BTW
- anyone with an interest in 'realtime' weather rain/snow/ maps, etc.
all over USA - check out www.CoCoRaHS.org where many of us report daily.
My Station ID is NY-NG-2.
Blessings, dean
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I originally saw an article on the BBC website in October 2010, and
signed up as a result. However, I also heard about it a few days
later on PM on BBC Radio 4 - obviously listening at the same time as
Helen!
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I heard about Zooniverse last year during a presentation at the
Adler Planetarium in Chicago. Checked out their website a few
months later and Old Weather caught my eye.
Karen
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I
heard about Zooniverse last year during a presentation at the Adler
Planetarium in Chicago. Checked out their website a few months
later and Old Weather caught my eye.
Karen
Are you also in Chicagoland? That would make 2 of us. :)
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Yes - I'm out in the western suburbs.
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I'm just north of the city. Hi, neighbor. :)
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Hi Janet,
There's only 2 of us from around Chicago?
You'd think Adler would have recruited lots of people for
Zooniverse. Maybe they're all working on the space projects
instead of OW. :(
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They are based at Adler, that alone kind of skews which people look at them. :'(
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An October 2010 article in the Washington Post. Been hooked ever since :P
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I am guessing that the reason why we are being asked this question
now is because the PTB are trying to work out where best to target
publicity for a forthcoming project. Since a couple of us have
said we found out from the BBC website, it might be worth mentioning
that the site has been completely redesigned since October 2010 - as it
is now, it is very unlikely that I would have come across the report
about OW.
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If you are going for the Beeb, try the news website rather than the
broadcast one. Trying that site is a nightmare these days - getting hold
of a schedule to plan your evening listening is a tour de force and
searching for background material is not at all easy. Perhaps my
mind no longer synchronizes with that of young, trendy web designers.
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I'd heard of Citizen Science projects over some years and felt that
this would be an interesting past time for a short spell. I noticed an
'event' advert about OW on the front page of the webpage for work
(Oxford University) and realized that Chris Lintott and the Zooniversers
lived literally round the corner from me. So I had a bash at
identifying distant sky things...didn't really grab me, so I had a poke
around OW and terrified myself with the level of responsibility towards
saving the planet (I found it very difficult to get going), but fell
head over heels in love with the forum where enthusiastic help, and a
laugh could be had (which saved the day and so here I am still).
With
the nights being long (up this end of the planet) and given the effort
put into 'Star gazing live' on the beeb, it would be an ideal time to do
a programme on Citizen Science. Given the number pf programmes
likely about the first world war surely we could get a mention in those?
Has anyone got a contact in that line? Should we not be building one
up? If we got offered a section of a programme what would we present?
Who would do it? If you can't blow your own trumpet who will?
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Just arrived, Hi all! when it comes to learning about OW, I'm
still trying to figure out what it is! I was browsing for
something completely different but all this talk about ships logs and
the like caught my interest.......guess I'll be lurking awhile till I
find out what is going on! ???
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Welcome to Old Weather, Walrus. Pleased to meet you.
If you have any questions, just ask. :)
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Welcome, Walrus. There are 2 topics in designed specifically for newbies. :)
In Got a question? Old hands are here to help
(http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3945.0), no questions are
considered stupid, just easy to answer. Ask whatever you wish to
get started. All of our old timers are friendly.
And when
you have finished transcribing a page, you may ask a moderator to look
at your actual transcriptions and give advice on what you are
doing. See the start of Ask for expert advice (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3944.0) for instructions.
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Welcome to the forum!
You could also look at:
Guides for US logs: drawing entry boxes, transcribing and editing (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3078.0)
and
* * * Index - Use this to find your Ship * * * (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3210.0)
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Welcome, Walrus!!
Another avenue for information. ..Some of
us SKYPE. If 'talking' is easier than writing a million questions. Drop a
posting here (WITHOUT your SKYPE address - as this is an open forum)
And we can possibly contact you for arrangements. ;D
Enjoy the trip!
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I just finished reading my souvenir book from the Royal Observatory
Greenwich. I looked up the "Solar Stormwatch" mentioned in the back of
the book and from there I found the Zooniverse projects and Old Weather.
I've
just finished my master's degree in history earlier this year so I'm
pretty keen to actually do something to contribute to historical and/or
scientific projects. :D
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Fabulous - then you will like the comment pages in the transcript. :)
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Welcome, and thanks for letting us know how you found us.
With OW you get to contribute to history and science both!
This
is the main link between the two projects: Old Space Weather: sightings
of aurorae and sunspots
(http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3670.0). It is something
that came about purely by chance!
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Hi KSGarvin,
Hope you have lots of fun on OW...sometimes you're
begging for something to happen when you're stuck in port...then it all
kicks off...trips round the Horn, or wondering how your ship can pay the
next load of rewards for the return of your crew from the earthly
delights of some town. My favourite is when the write up gets poetic
when beautiful events (dramatic skies, meteor showers, aurora etc etc)
happen. Enjoy the journey!
Joan
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Hi KSGarvin! Welcome to our little corner of the world!
Actually we are all over the world. You can see where we are by using the map at:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=0.35156,-156.445312&msa=0&spn=132.034234,302.695312&mid=zaT-TbaJRxQk.k-KRsKq8dEyw
and
if you send a personal message to POMMY STUART with your address (or
just the City, State/Province/Region, Country) he'll add you to our map.
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Thanks everyone!
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I got to hear about OW at a trip to the local theatre. It's a cosy
little amateur theatre, and they were putting on "Darwin and Fitzroy" -
about the voyage of the Beagle - Captain Fitzroy as you no doubt know
was much involved with developing weather observation and forecasting in
that era. And before the performance we had a fascinating presentation
by one Philip Brohan. I was awestruck by the beautiful videos of world
weather system circulation generated by OW data. I loved the idea of
getting involved from both the science and history/human interest
angles. (I read the Hornblower books avidly as a kid.) And so here I
am. :)
Just sent PM to Philip to say thanks for recruiting me that night.
And
'gnoseological concupiscence'? Just a fancy way of saying there is a
lot of stuff out there we will never completely know or understand. But
it's a human (and ferret!) trait to be curious, and try - a basic desire
that can sometimes get us into trouble! It's a concept of Karl Rahner, a
theologian I came across while doing a part-time Masters in Theology a
few years ago, and the term just made me laugh.
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What a splendid experience!! I hope Philip sees this post and knows he had at least 1 success that night.
I
too read Hornblower as a child - I was sure it was all naval battles
for boys, but my father simply left a paperback on my nightstand until
my curiosity made me break down and read it. The kind of thing
that teaches the romance and hard work of going to sea. :)
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I read Hornblower as a kid too! I don't know what started me on
them; my tastes were more science fiction, fantasy, and mystery.
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I read Hornblower and Biggles (pilot), I dipped into the Alexander
Kent series but they didn't grip me in the same way. I wonder what their
authors would think about some of the outcomes of reading their books.
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I enjoyed giving that talk in the Prospect Theatre - though I was a
little worried about falling off the stage (I'm not used to footlights
and had not expected how little you can see when on stage in a theatre).
I
think oldWeather owes quite a bit to Horatio Hornblower (If you enjoyed
the novels, you might also like Parkinson's biography
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Life-Times-Horatio-Hornblower/dp/0750921099
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Life-Times-Horatio-Hornblower/dp/0750921099)).
He gave many of us an affection for stories from square-riggers.
More
recently I've also enjoyed Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin - for some
reason I never took to Richard Bolitho. Any other recommendations?
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For people who like Hornblower, a couple more of CS Forester's naval books:
"The Captain from Connecticut" - American vessel engaged with the British after US Independence
"The Ship" - WWII British ship on Malta convoy.
and a list of his books at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_Forester
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I was looking around for something for my grandson to get involved with. He likes science.
Saw
a film on Monarch migrations, searched on that. Found Zooniverse, then
you guys. Thought it was something I might like, as I am a retired
biologist with an interest in history.
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We are glad to have you, Jack. Our Albatross is the very first
science ship built entirely for the US Fish Commission to study marine
life, and her logs are written more clearly than most. I know the
Smithsonian still has all her field notes logbooks from the scientists
on board as well as many of her specimens and are anxious to link our
ship logs with the weather and location information to them.
(Apparently marine biologists forget to give the lat/long information
connected to their sample collections. ;) )
Also, please feel free to ask questions. We are a friendly group.
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We are curious to know how people learned about the Old Weather project.
If you are willing, please tell us here.
Thanks!
I
was a professional meteorologist with Environment Canada for 28 years,
until they shut down our weather centre in 1998. I worked part time as a
meteorologist for the Yukon Forest Service for another 12 years after
that. Shortly after OW started, but I don't remember exactly when, one
of the people who had worked with me in the weather centre told me about
Old Weather. It caught my fancy, and I signed up. My first ship was HMS
Grafton, oh ye of perpetually horrible handwriting. When I signed up,
she was patrolling the Red Sea in 1915. After that it was in the Med.
supporting the landing, battles and evacuation at Galipoli. I found it
addictive, especially seeing the battles around Galipoli from a
shipboard view, as it were. After that, a British Gunboat, starting with
"M" (name forgotton), on the Yangste River in the 1930s. We were
getting ready to move south at the time, so OW took a back seat to
packing up and selling a house. However, I had absolutely no idea that
navies from all over the world were steaming up and down the Yangtse and
other Chinese rivers back in the 30s! Then on to the Grafton.
I
see the value in entering the weather data, and I enjoy the historical
aspect of the Events pages; the combination of the two make the project
terribly addictive.
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(Apparently marine biologists forget to give the lat/long information connected to their sample collections. ;) )
Eh? The biologists' logs give the ship's location in far more detail than the logs we're transcribing do!
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Well that's good to know, Danny. Do you have online links so we can see some of them?
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They should be mentioned in various places in the Albatross thread,
where I've used them to source information (the voyage maps should
reference them, at the very least).
As far as I know, all records
of dredging were published in the Fisheries Commission's annual
reports, which are available from the NOAA:
http://www.lib.noaa.gov/collections/imgdocmaps/fish_com_annualreport.html
The listings I'm aware of are:
Report 1900 - Compilation of Records from 1883 to 1900
Report 1902 - Records for 1901 and 1902
Report 1903 - Records for 1903
Report 1905 - Records for 1904 and 1905
Report 1906 - Records for 1906
Report 1910 - Records for 1907 to 1910
Report 1920 - Records for 1911 to 1920
Actual
research is likely to have been published in the Bulletin of the USFC,
also available from the NOAA:
http://www.lib.noaa.gov/collections/imgdocmaps/fish_com_bulletins.html
I've
also come across notebooks written during the surveys available on the
internet - I seem to recall they're available from the Smithsonian or
similar.
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Those department reports are online for most departments, altho not
the most current ones. And very interesting and informative they
can be. But I was wondering about the actual field logbooks filled
out by the scientists in sync with the ship's logbook. Our logs
tell us they dredged this afternoon, the field logbooks would tell
us what specimens they pulled up.
Found them -
the scan date on some is December 2014 so I may have simply looked too
soon. Some Biodiversity Library did the scanning apparently, but
they are still copyright-free gov't docs.
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/search?searchTerm=albatross+field+notes#/titles index.
The 1899-1900 great circle journey is at here plus others (3 month books)
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/176710#page/1/
They
don't list the specimens here at all, but they do list deep ocean
temperatures and some of those may interest Philip. I don't think
any other ship in our fleet is taking the bottom ocean temperature in
the Mariana Trench. (Of course, all the temps are handwritten and
no one has yet transcribed them.) :)
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How are the specimens labeled? The dredging sites were all given a
DR.xxxx identifier, and if those are still on the specimens, matching
them would be much easier. If it was only a date, it would still be
useful. Otherwise, I suspect that matching the specimens to where they
were found would be very difficult...
The PTB have previously
said they aren't currently interested in the sea floor temperatures,
especially as they have already been published in the dredging records,
and so are actually transcribed! They occasionally turn up in the
Albatross' logs.
Edit: Hopefully I'm not sounding like too much
of a downer, Janet! It's actually quite nice that someone else is
interested in all this stuff I've been looking at for a while :)
The
notebooks you found do indeed to seem to be the ones I've found before.
The reports from the Fisheries Commission are essentially typed up
summaries of those, and are somewhat easier to read - though perhaps
there's some information in there that wasn't copied over.
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Actually, the deep-ocean data people
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ocean_Database_Project
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ocean_Database_Project)) have been
at this data rescue business much longer
(http://www.iode.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=100087
(http://www.iode.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=100087))
than us surface/atmosphere people. However they do look at different
documents, have quite different scientific requirements, and I don't
think they have a citizen science project.
So I (and the oW
science team) don't do sub-surface data, because there are already other
people doing that (it's a whole seperate scientific field that I know
little about) - so you don't need to transcribe any such observations
you find (I don't know what to do with them, and they may already be
known), but please do mention their existence in the forum, so that when
the oceanographers start taking an interest we can tell them where to
look.
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Please do mention
their existence here: Interesting data found but not transcribed
(meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
(http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=4093.0)
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I have been thinking and working for quite some time on the best
ways to capture and preserve all of the work that OW volunteers are
accomplishing that is not part of the instrumental weather data stream.
One of the very compelling things we can do is relate the transcriptions
back to the original documents at the US National Archives and
elsewhere, which will enable word and attribute search of the high
resolution image collection, and dual display of content. In the same
way we can work with multiple repositories to unite different sources of
information that stems directly from the ships' logbooks, but are
accessioned in different collections. For example, this field note book
(https://transcription.si.edu/project/6983) was kept by William Dall,
the Coast Survey officer in charge of the schooner Yukon in 1880 and
transcribed by the Smithsonian; the corresponding logbook was imaged at
the National Archives and transcribed by Old Weather volunteers. When
we're done then, you'll be able to see everything OW has accomplished,
along with related items like this, and know that it has become part of a
curated digital collection that will be available for research in the
future. Almost certainly research we haven't imagined.
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That sounds marvelous, Kevin. Really cool.