Old Weather Forum

Old Weather: Classic => The Dockyard => Topic started by: Randi on 24 July 2012, 17:18:33

Title: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 24 July 2012, 17:18:33
Add your questions and comments to this topic.



If you need help transcribing see: Rodgers -- Reference: Transcription Example and Log Description (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3211.0)

If you are interested in the names of crew members see: Rodgers -- Crew Lists (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3408.0)

Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 25 July 2012, 09:55:29
The OCD guide to weather reports ::)

I found it very hard in the beginning, but now I have a system that works well for me.
I draw a box that is slightly less than 1 line in height and a bit longer than all the data on the line.
I alternate odd hours shifted left and even hours shifted right - to make them easy to select
You will see two small red dots near the bottom of the attachment. Those are the locations I click to get the boxes where I want them.
Once you get used to this, it is quite easy ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 July 2012, 12:21:35
An excellent system.  I dropped mine and switched to yours. ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 25 July 2012, 12:26:16
 :-[ :-*
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 25 July 2012, 19:15:15
I'm impressed by how neat it is  8). No gaps and no overlaps. Are you sure you can get that precision without any adjustments?  :o
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 26 July 2012, 03:43:18
I have been known to tweak it a bit, although I rarely do that now ;)
Once you learn where to click to bring up the next box it is really not hard ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 27 July 2012, 19:35:11
San Francisco 10 June 1881

8 to mrdn   Found out that the stores had come from New York were in bad condition. Comdg officer ordered a board of survey and the detailed peport will be appended

Mrdn to 4 pm  Recd on board 1 box containing clothes for officers. Also several boxed of sheep skin clothing.



Modern Board of Survey: http://olao.od.nih.gov/DLS/GovernmentProperty/ManagingProperty/LossDamageDestructionPropertyBoards/BoardsOfSurvey.htm
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 27 July 2012, 19:45:23
The sheep skin clothing sounds like somebody in supply appreciates arctic conditions.  Wool coats don't make it up there. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 29 July 2012, 06:59:25
12 June 1881
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0018_1.jpg
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 29 July 2012, 07:39:00
American symbol for anchor  ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 29 July 2012, 08:02:21
Well, they are at anchor ;) ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 04 August 2012, 09:12:33
On Rodgers, I don't think I have ever seen a 'c' by itself. It always seems to be either 'bc' or 'oc'.

And, it is not always consistent!
Quote
   
    Code: bc
    Clear: 0
earlier
Quote
    Code: bc
    Clear: 9
???



Now it generally seems to be oc when the prop clear is zero and bc when it is non-zero.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 04 August 2012, 16:29:06
Comet Tebbut2: Natural Phenomena (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=384.msg47969#msg47969)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 04 August 2012, 17:12:50
Hi randi,
Just did a whole page of weather in about 30 mins which I didn't think was too bad.  You've been doing LOTS on the searchable database. If you want to leave some entries for me to do then let me know. I'm not sure of how we could do that, but I've been doing some reading practice today by looking up the text pages on their own using their URLs so that I'm not stuck gaping at the spider scrawl too much.  ;)
Ava
Time to darken ship for me!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 04 August 2012, 17:24:21
Right now, there isn't much, but later on it would be good if we could team up for the DB.
Do you have any preferences for people, places, or ships?

I see that Stuart is putting some in for Manning ;D

NOW is the time to do it so that everyone can get the most benefit!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 06 August 2012, 15:20:28
No preferences for DB stuff...but thinking about places, the cartographer at work was away today - I'll see if Ailsa's got any useful maps of the USN's areas of patrol tomorrow.

What's the weather code at 1 pm please:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0019_0.jpg


Given that the events page is mostly a three part novel version of the coding, and from what you've spotted, I now keep both pages open in two different tabs.  It's really helpful!!!
But for the above code the page says this :
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0019_1.jpg

Can the 'f' stand for anything other than fog do you think??  (or is the fog the thing that's in my head  ;D ;D)

OR PERHAPS - they were befuddled - it was the day of 'Many Ladies'  ;D ;D ::)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 06 August 2012, 15:46:31
I think I put bcf, but I agree that the events page doesn't mention fog - perhaps they were distracted by all the ladies visiting ("clear and pleasant pleasant") ;)

I have seen f used for fog on Rodgers.

Sometimes the events page helps, sometimes it seems to have a rather different perspective ::)

Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 06 August 2012, 15:51:31
Triumph - three weather pages and novel pages dealt with today. What made a real difference was Craig making me realize that I was opening a new box by pinging in a greyed area (sigh!).

AND to quote the great Walt Whitman.. Captain! Oh my Captain! - how come the front page says there's no captain? At least they've given you the correct insignia. Odd -but the least of our worries.  ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 06 August 2012, 15:54:45
I think I put bcf, but I agree that the events page doesn't mention fog - perhaps they were distracted by all the ladies visiting ("clear and pleasant pleasant") ;)

I have seen f used for fog on Rodgers.

Sometimes the events page helps, sometimes it seems to have a rather different perspective ::)

Yes - I noticed 'pleasant pleasant'.   ::) ::) ;D

Oh well - the rule is to put down what's there..I'll just make a note in events - and the 'clear sky' column at least shows that it can't have been foggy.  :D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 06 August 2012, 15:57:08
Triumph - three weather pages and novel pages dealt with today. What made a real difference was Craig making me realize that I was opening a new box by pinging in a greyed area (sigh!).

AND to quote the great Walt Whitman.. Captain! Oh my Captain! - how come the front page says there's no captain? At least they've given you the correct insignia. Odd -but the least of our worries.  ::) ;D ;D

Soon to be Ex captain if I don't get to work! ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 06 August 2012, 16:40:41
BAROMETER CHANGE - please alert analysts

7 July 1881
For the 6 to 8 pm watch, they say "Registered mercurial barometer from 8pm"
The pressure at 7pm is 30.15
The pressure at 8pm is 30.00 - the following day seems to be with this barometer.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0043_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0043_1.jpg
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 06 August 2012, 16:44:26
Noted, Oh my Captain!
 ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 07 August 2012, 16:55:23
After about 3 weeks "At Sea" out of San Francisco, we finally have a landmark: Ounalaska

Unalaska Island: http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/usaname.php?uni=1411520&fid=usageo_1311

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3853~400043:Rand,-McNally-&-Co--s-Alaska-?qvq=w4s:/where/Alaska/when/1879/;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=1

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~30523~1140050:Northwestern-America-showing-the-te?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where/Alaska/when/1880;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=2&trs=3
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 07 August 2012, 17:15:48
Aha, I didn't see you there. The Corwin was there on May 21 & 22 1881. (I entered into the DB today).
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 07 August 2012, 18:22:43
You'd already left ;D

I should soon be able to profit from your DB work!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 07 August 2012, 20:10:19
I found some genuine NOAA nautical charts. 
List of available charts: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AlaskaViewerTable.shtml

Bering Sea south with Aleutians: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/513.shtml
Bering Sea north: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/514.shtml
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 07 August 2012, 20:30:26
Good work, Janet. These could be useful  8)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 07 August 2012, 20:38:17
After about 3 weeks "At Sea" out of San Francisco, we finally have a landmark: Ounalaska

Unalaska Island: http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/usaname.php?uni=1411520&fid=usageo_1311

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3853~400043:Rand,-McNally-&-Co--s-Alaska-?qvq=w4s:/where/Alaska/when/1879/;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=1

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~30523~1140050:Northwestern-America-showing-the-te?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where/Alaska/when/1880;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=2&trs=3

These are fab...I'll make a gazeteer (did I really just say that??)  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 07 August 2012, 20:56:12
I found some genuine NOAA nautical charts. 
List of available charts: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AlaskaViewerTable.shtml

Bering Sea south with Aleutians: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/513.shtml
Bering Sea north: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/514.shtml

These are amazing...but I might just not get very far with a gazeteer ( :-[ :-[  ::)  ;D )....I wonder if the USCG have one - Is this the sort of thing that Philip Brohan could request - or should I speak to Myles Allen about it (though he's pretty busy just now)?

Time to darken ship I think!  ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 07 August 2012, 21:20:03
Apparently, the CG and USN run the survey ships that collect the data, both all created charts and maps are now stored at NOAA Office of Coast Survey: http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/csdl/ctp/abstract.htm

This includes...
Quote
The Office of Coast Survey's Historical Map & Chart Collection is a rich archive of high-resolution images capturing a vast wealth of the U.S. government's historical surveying and mapping. The collection of over 35,000 scanned images - covering offshore and onshore sites - includes some of the Nation's earliest nautical charts, bathymetric maps, city plans, and Civil War battlefield maps.

Electronic copies are available, by free download, to the public.

http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/
BACKGROUND
Today's Office of Coast Survey traces its charting efforts back to 1807, when President Thomas Jefferson founded the Survey of the Coast. To celebrate and preserve this long history, NOAA started assembling the collection in 1995 as a data rescue effort. NOAA continues to preserve charts and maps produced by NOAA's Coast Survey and its predecessors, especially the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey and the U.S. Lake Survey (previously under the Department of War).


This has to be the best yet for the Aleutian Islands: http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/tiled/zoomifypreview.html?zoomifyImagePath=3N8800-96A

It's an unusual case of bureaucracy being efficient, and not requiring separate map collections from the Navy, Coast Guard, and NOAA.  Amazing! And we are NOT going to get lost on this voyage!
;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 08 August 2012, 03:42:28
That's neat Janet! 8) 8) 8)

Though there is still the challenge of going from the semi-unreadable variation of the then-current name with only the most general idea of the location - to - the place on the modern or historical map ::)

With luck, Craig will already have them in the database before I get there ;D
(though I will go with the policy of also putting in an entry for the place for my ship ;))
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 08 August 2012, 05:56:14
There are days when you want to kiss a stranger  :-* - the USGS Geographic names information service (GNIS) has a search facility. I gave it a challenge - to find Alexandrovsk which sounds like the sort of name that will have been changed. It came up with Nanwalek and Nushagak both with lat. and long. given, and with links to interesting info about each place - and it's previous names.
This is just so wonderful..I wish we'd had this before:


http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic


DO READ the FAQs especially about saving URLs

HAPPY HUNTING ONE AND ALL    ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 08 August 2012, 07:32:59
That's great, Ava. I put in Ounalaska and it came up with UnAlaska, the current name.

I then tried Ratmanoff Island (from the USRC Corwin log) and it comes up with Little Diomede Island. If you type the same thing into Google Maps it goes to Big Diomede Island, which belongs to Russia. Little Diomede belongs to the US.   The Lat/Long I entered into the DB is for Big Diomede. The Corwin Log shows it just to the east of Big Diomede.

GNIS will be very useful. You have to be patient as it's not very responsive and doesn't tell you when it's processing your request.

Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 08 August 2012, 08:36:19
Hi Craig,
Yes it's not as simple as one might hope - but the extra info about the place really helps. There are 2 x Alexandrovskas..but getting the lat and long and the other info made it very easy to gather the correct modern place name.   What a relief to have it though!   ;D






 right info....
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 08 August 2012, 09:23:31
I don't remember Alexandrovska being mentioned in Rodgers' log ???
Did I miss something or did you get the name from somewhere else?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 08 August 2012, 09:49:22
No panics! I was perusing the maps that were circulated yesterday and just noticed that name as a reasonably big place that might get mentioned some time. And if anywhere was going to have a name change, an old-fashioned Russian jobbie was likely to be it...so I used that as the perfect tester for the GNIS.  ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 09 August 2012, 15:49:36
The 16 July events page notes:
"No lat and long at noon"

So far, there is no lat and long recorded at any time >:(
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 09 August 2012, 15:52:49
Ummmm....in order for there not be any lat or long they must not be on the planet... ::) :o ;D
I  don't suppose they go mushroom picking as well do they?  ;D     Next thing they'll be ordering field loads of sheep.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 10 August 2012, 12:26:12
It seems to me that our log keeper writes fire as "fier" more often than as "fire".
According to my 1928 Websters, it is an obsolete variant of fire.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0054_1.jpg



He also sometimes uses a line (I use a single dash) in the cloud type field. I think he does this to indicate that the type of clouds can't be determined.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 10 August 2012, 13:06:33
AAAAGGGHHHH! I just lost 23 entries.  I use to work in an A&E dept - so dumb problems like this really do wind me up...
Everything I've done today has turned a silk purse into a sow's ear.
grump grump grumpety grump.... ???   ???  >:(   >:(   :-\   :'(

We should have eeked out PhII until PhIII was free of rogue boxes, and to the point where part pages could be retrieved.


grump
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 10 August 2012, 13:15:42
"It seems to me that our log keeper writes fire as "fier" more often than as "fire".
According to my 1928 Websters, it is an obsolete variant of fire."

I didn't notice that it was Websters that you have - that's pretty handy with this lot! My 1922 dictionary is the OED.
Websters always makes me think of Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Carmen Miranda - is your's Morocco bound though?  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 10 August 2012, 14:09:36
This conversation set me googling, and I found a free online 1913 Websters Dictionary:
http://www.webster-dictionary.net/

With a good index for looking things up.

And now that I think of it, the old spelling 'fier' still exists in words like 'fiery', which will teach me to not make judgments of our lieutenants spelling ability. ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 10 August 2012, 14:34:14
"It seems to me that our log keeper writes fire as "fier" more often than as "fire".
According to my 1928 Websters, it is an obsolete variant of fire."

I didn't notice that it was Websters that you have - that's pretty handy with this lot! My 1922 dictionary is the OED.
Websters always makes me think of Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Carmen Miranda - is your's Morocco bound though?  ;)  ;D

Leather bound, India paper, and gilded at the top edge of the pages --- bought USED ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 10 August 2012, 14:35:42
This conversation set me googling, and I found a free online 1913 Websters Dictionary:
http://www.webster-dictionary.net/
[but it doesn't include fier ;D]

With a good index for looking things up.

And now that I think of it, the old spelling 'fier' still exists in words like 'fiery', which will teach me to not make judgments of our lieutenants spelling ability. ;D
Good point on fiery.
I'll feel happier about transcribing as written now ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 10 August 2012, 14:42:40
"It seems to me that our log keeper writes fire as "fier" more often than as "fire".
According to my 1928 Websters, it is an obsolete variant of fire."

I didn't notice that it was Websters that you have - that's pretty handy with this lot! My 1922 dictionary is the OED.
Websters always makes me think of Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Carmen Miranda - is your's Morocco bound though?  ;)  ;D

Leather bound, India paper, and gilded at the top edge of the pages --- bought USED ;)
What a corker!  8)  Lucky you!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 16 August 2012, 07:02:25
28 July 1881:
Commenced serving out lime juice to Each man aboard ship. Each man to take daily one ounce. To be taken in the presence of the officer of the deck. By order of the Comdg. officer.

I guess it wasn't very popular ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 16 August 2012, 09:13:41
It would go down better with a shot of rum.  ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kathy on 16 August 2012, 11:13:26
some muddled mint... ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Dean on 16 August 2012, 20:53:14
You put de lime in de Coconut!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=aA9OqUuA6a0 ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 16 August 2012, 22:12:32
 ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 24 August 2012, 15:08:48
I may be about to make a real idiot out of myself...but what are we supposed to be doing with the temperature of the bulb attached to the barometer please?  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 24 August 2012, 15:30:11
Does the attached help or am I missing what you are asking?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 24 August 2012, 15:43:02
Thanks randi - that's helpful.  ;D ;D ;D
____________________________________________________
urbble burbble - rats rats rats....gggnnnhhhhhh..aaaaggghhhh!
Fine - that's just a few corrections to make.  >:( >:( >:(  ::) ::) ::)  :-[ :-[ :-[
slumps into corner feeling a right idiot. - LARGE DARK CLOUD...ONLY SELF TO BLAME.  :'( :'( :'(
_______________________________
WILL SOMEONE P L E A S E FIX THE -REVISIT-A-PAGE FACILITY???? PPPLLLEEEAASSEEEE!!!!!!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 24 August 2012, 15:48:20
 :-* :-* :-*

Tutorial writers please take note.

Frankly, even for the RN ships the terminology was less than clear, but then we had examples.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 24 August 2012, 15:52:59
thanks randi..you're doing a good job.  :-*
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Helen J on 24 August 2012, 15:59:26
:-* :-* :-*

Tutorial writers please take note.

Frankly, even for the RN ships the terminology was less than clear, but then we had examples.

Would it be helpful to start a thread to capture this kind of information - what is needed for a revised tutorial, or if it's not going to be possible to revise the tutorial in time, information which is in some other fashion made very readily and obviously available to all new transcribers?
For example, on Manning (the only Phase III ship I've done so far) there have never so far been any lat/long.  But in the space for that in the log there is quite often a bearing to a landmark.  I expect this makes a lot of sense when they're basically in coastal waters.  I'm putting them in 'place name' with the bearing.  But that's only because I recognize a bearing when I see one from the earlier phases - if I was coming new to this I'd be totally baffled because the headings say this is latitude/longitude, but they don't look like it, and where should I put it?  Or even worse some might think that this is what lat/long do look like and hence be confused when they get the real thing!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 24 August 2012, 16:21:34
Good idea helenj - I'll check where it should go.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 24 August 2012, 18:16:35
Thanks randi - that's helpful.  ;D ;D ;D
____________________________________________________
urbble burbble - rats rats rats....gggnnnhhhhhh..aaaaggghhhh!
Fine - that's just a few corrections to make.  >:( >:( >:(  ::) ::) ::)  :-[ :-[ :-[
slumps into corner feeling a right idiot. - LARGE DARK CLOUD...ONLY SELF TO BLAME.  :'( :'( :'(
_______________________________
WILL SOMEONE P L E A S E FIX THE -REVISIT-A-PAGE FACILITY???? PPPLLLEEEAASSEEEE!!!!!!

Did you spread the pressure over the two height fields or leave the second blank?

I think that as long as 2 of the 3 transcribers agree, it is OK. So as long as leelhat and I have the same numbers yours won't hurt. Since the numbers aren't too hard to read, we probably will agree. BUT, I need to double check this.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: leelaht on 24 August 2012, 20:41:25
Thanks randi - that's helpful.  ;D ;D ;D
____________________________________________________
urbble burbble - rats rats rats....gggnnnhhhhhh..aaaaggghhhh!
Fine - that's just a few corrections to make.  >:( >:( >:(  ::) ::) ::)  :-[ :-[ :-[
slumps into corner feeling a right idiot. - LARGE DARK CLOUD...ONLY SELF TO BLAME.  :'( :'( :'(
_______________________________
WILL SOMEONE P L E A S E FIX THE -REVISIT-A-PAGE FACILITY???? PPPLLLEEEAASSEEEE!!!!!!

Did you spread the pressure over the two height fields or leave the second blank?

I think that as long as 2 of the 3 transcribers agree, it is OK. So as long as leelhat and I have the same numbers yours won't hurt. Since the numbers aren't too hard to read, we probably will agree. BUT, I need to double check this.

What I've been doing is putting barometer height (4 digits) in the height 1 column and barometer ther in the height 2 column.  Then temperature air dry in the air column, temperature air wet in the bulb column, and temperature water in the sea column.  In other words, transcribing the numbers in order from log box to transcription box.  If this is out of whack, just give a shout and I'll conform.   :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 24 August 2012, 20:49:16
Quote
What I've been doing is putting barometer height (4 digits) in the height 1 column and barometer ther in the height 2 column.  Then temperature air dry in the air column, temperature air wet in the bulb column, and temperature water in the sea column.  In other words, transcribing the numbers in order from log box to transcription box.  If this is out of whack, just give a shout and I'll conform.   

Absolutely perfect.  If your ship has an aneroid barometer, the second 'height' box gets left blank. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 24 August 2012, 20:55:17
Well it would be interesting to know what the two/three right situation is - but I'll probably correct them anyway for the sake of completeness. I think the temp was missing from some early pages - and I just got into the habit of putting nothing in the height 2 box - then it didn't occur to me to put a temperature in there. It's a real Homer Simpson moment. Thank goodness I'm no further on than mid July.   See you lost the captaincy..Lelaht's got quick fingers  ;D - but I guess you time's a bit lost to moderation now  ;D
I'm going to shuffle off and keep kicking my own shins for a while. 'That'll laarn me' as they say round rural parts hereabout.  :-[
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: leelaht on 24 August 2012, 21:21:13
Came across something written by John Muir 'Cruise of the Corwin' At Plover Bay and St Michael, dated June 1881.  No mention of USS Rodgers, but does describe what it's like there. http://www.yosemite.ca.us/john_muir_writings/the_cruise_of_the_corwin/chapter_7.html
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 24 August 2012, 21:29:36
Yes, I am looking forward to reading the book. Randi found this link

http://books.google.fr/books?id=v5gBcjZkQ5IC&printsec=frontcover&dq=john+muir&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jwQHUMW4Kcag0QX7zeHCDQ&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=corwin&f=false

It's out of print but I have ordered a used copy for $22. It contains other writings of Muir, who was the founder of the Sierra Club.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 24 August 2012, 22:33:40
Leelaht, Google Books as the whole book in free ebook at

[urlhttp://books.google.com/books?id=nzUOirpcsrkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=muir++corwin&source=bl&ots=evfNwho6Lu&sig=smvVe3jUdwckPPL959U1LJscA5k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TSk4UIGeApStyAHv6YHoDw&sqi=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=muir%20%20corwin&f=false]THE CRUISE OF THE CORWIN[/url]
 By JOHN MUIR

There's a little search box in the left sidebar that will show the paragraphs mentioning the Corwin, and those mentioning the Rodgers, but it won't download in Kindle format.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 25 August 2012, 03:33:21
Well it would be interesting to know what the two/three right situation is - but I'll probably correct them anyway for the sake of completeness. I think the temp was missing from some early pages - and I just got into the habit of putting nothing in the height 2 box - then it didn't occur to me to put a temperature in there. It's a real Homer Simpson moment. Thank goodness I'm no further on than mid July.   See you lost the captaincy..Lelaht's got quick fingers  ;D - but I guess you time's a bit lost to moderation now  ;D
I'm going to shuffle off and keep kicking my own shins for a while. 'That'll laarn me' as they say round rural parts hereabout.  :-[

Yes, as long as 2 out of 3 agree the data is considered good.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 25 August 2012, 04:02:09
Hurrah! - that's good to know!

I had to laugh yesterday when the map on the 'vessels' page of the Rodger was blank (black)..clearly their determination not to state any lat/long/places has been acknowledged by the database (now that's weird  ;D ;D ;D).
J
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 25 August 2012, 09:23:30
OK helenj - sorry it took me so long!

Information to include in Tutorial or Help Documents / Other Ideas : http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3068.msg49547#msg49547
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Helen J on 25 August 2012, 12:19:49
OK helenj - sorry it took me so long!

Information to include in Tutorial or Help Documents / Other Ideas : http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3068.msg49547#msg49547

No problem, just found it and repeated my suggestion, so they're altogether.  Thanks for getting it up and running - we need not to waste all this useful info!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 29 August 2012, 19:22:01
The predominant word in the weather reports is 'pleasant'. It dawns upon me that the Rodgers is probably full of super-relaxed moon-gazing love-lorn poets sailing aimlessly in the fog of arctic waters.  Awwww. I love them.  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 29 August 2012, 20:44:52
It's late - I need to go to bed -I'm feeling really peckish..and the Rodgers has just bought a load of dried salmon for dog food.
Woof, ruff ruff, howl, woof woof.
tail wag tail wag tail wag.
 ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 30 August 2012, 03:02:30
Yeah, that did stand out!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 30 August 2012, 04:10:13
Mmmmmm -with some scrambled egg and toast...ANYWAY...did I read write about eleven thousand feet of lumber? 23rd July?  There were also 6 cords of wood. The impression I have is that the 11k ft of lumber are for delivery, and the '6 cords' for firing up the engine..but that doesn't seem an awful lot - even though they are under sail. Anyone out there got any thoughts about this? Thanks... :) :) :)

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0059_1.jpg  (4 to 8 pm)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 30 August 2012, 07:30:42
They took on a lot of coal and also some coal oil. I think that is for the engines and cooking.

Perhaps some of the lumber/wood is for repairs or construction?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 30 August 2012, 11:05:30
Ah - that's interesting. I did wonder about coal and oil. My other thought, given the age they lived in, is that good Russian deal (a certain grade of pine) would have been needed for a lot of construction/house finishing. Are we expecting them to be taking on commercial enterprises I wonder? Time to find out more about the early coastguard of the USA I think.
J  ;) :D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 30 August 2012, 13:26:28
Mmmmmm -with some scrambled egg and toast...ANYWAY...did I read write about eleven thousand feet of lumber? 23rd July?  There were also 6 cords of wood. The impression I have is that the 11k ft of lumber are for delivery, and the '6 cords' for firing up the engine..but that doesn't seem an awful lot - even though they are under sail. Anyone out there got any thoughts about this? Thanks... :) :) :)

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0059_1.jpg  (4 to 8 pm)

I'm wondering, are they preparing to build a camp north of the timber line in the arctic?  Because then the cords of firewood could be for the construction party working on land.  I notice they also have dog pens stowed with the lumber, which would support this.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 30 August 2012, 18:36:20
Hi Janet,
I think that sounds likely. I did a rough calc - for a small establishment like Scott's huts - they'd take about 3000 ft (inc shingles for the roof), so 11k would give you three/four good size buildings (inc sheds).
It's such a life adventure doing these logs isn't it?  :D :D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 30 August 2012, 18:47:11
Please tell me that I didn't just read in the section 8 to mrdn: ..Rec'd on board freak wife (600 lbs)  Any suggestions folks?  ::)

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0060_1.jpg
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 30 August 2012, 20:14:30
I would guess it's fresh meat, but the writing is terrible.  Freak 600 lb wife is still a possibility  ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 30 August 2012, 20:58:57
"Freak wife" has to be one for the mondegreens. ;D

Definitely "fresh" something, but it looks like there's an 'f' or 'p' in it somewhere toward the end.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 30 August 2012, 22:01:42
H'mm ...

I suppose as he prefers the spelling "fiers" to "fires" it could be almost anything. I've considered "Fungi" but 600 lbs would be a considerable volume, and miss-spelt "Muffin" - that would be something to see.

Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: lollia paolina on 05 September 2012, 06:31:16
My guess is "peat maze (600lbs)". :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 05 September 2012, 08:31:03
I had wondered about peat myself, but it isn't his typical p.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: leelaht on 15 September 2012, 09:18:24
USS Rodgers - Fate: burned 30/11/1881  :'(

8:45 am the alarm of fire was given with position of fire from forward.  Attached hose at once and connected steam and main force pumps. Fire located in lower for hold on port side. Battened down hatches, two streams of water playing in fore hold.  Connected up main boilers & started fires under main boilers - smoke not allowing donkey boiler to be fired - broke connection with main steam pipe from donkey boiler and attached suction hose leading steam in hold. At 11:30 am broke out kerosine oil from sail-room and placed in poop.  At 5:30 pm indications of fire breaking out and smoke driving firemen out of fire-room, buoyed and slipped chains and made all plain sail heading the ship toward beach. At 7:30 pm ship touched let go stream anchor and opened outboard delivery - lowered all boats. At 10.30 pm succeeded by means of skin boat in attaching a line on shore. At 11:30 pm ordered to abandon ship, fire having broken out forward and extending rapidly aft. At 2.20 am Dec 1st landed with all hands and hauled up boats.

Slush ice formed about ship about twenty inches thick, so that ship could hardly force her way through.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 15 September 2012, 09:23:06
 :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 15 September 2012, 12:11:07
Writing that out must have broken the Master's heart.  I noticed weather readings stopped at noon, and no one copied in the junior officer's notes from the rough deck log.  Maybe that was his way of taking full responsibility for it. 

Quote
Weather cold. Wind fresh from WNW, decreasing to light airs in latter part of the day. Slush ice formed about ship about twenty inches thick, so that ship could hardly force her way through.
Having the temp drop from 15F at 1am to 10F at noon means a cold front was coming through.  Not good.

I also noticed that the following pages were blank.  They did NOT use this book to journal the crew's activities and efforts to survive as a unit.  Do sailors know where that journaling was taking place?  I can't believe they'd just drop the ingrained habit of recording their official actions.

I did walk my JPEG links up to that last page:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0189_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0189_1.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0190_1.jpg

(http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0189_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: leelaht on 15 September 2012, 19:23:08
The weather logging stops at 11 am, only wind was reported, not bar, temps, clouds... more important things to do...

I see I missed a line in transcribing  :-[
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 15 September 2012, 19:33:18
leelaht, I was not trying to improve on your transcription.  It's just after 2 years at OW, I fully grok why ships are 'she' and not 'it'.  When one of ours burns and sinks, I almost need to mourn it, although it's a different feeling than I feel for people.  And that is what I was doing - laying out the visual things to see and note to say goodbye, and then worrying about its stranded crew and missing the chance to check up on them.  You'll find posts from a number of transcribers feeling like they lost a friend when they transcribed their ship being decommissioned or otherwise lost.

Usually, the weather records on the left page are very sufficient.  This time, I was wondering what the crew was walking into and gave myself that gift.

Your transcription is fine.  Good enough to completely hook me into the ship's final story, which is exactly what we want.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 17 September 2012, 00:36:17
Hi Janet and leelaht.
Cannot understand the last two paragraphs of the last log page.

They beached and abandoned the vessel. (a fair thing to do if you are on fire)
Last section mentions 'ship could hardly force her way through'. 
Through what, if is she is beached?

I like you am surprised there is does not seem to be a record of that happened later, after all they did take the log book with them.
Maybe they forgot the ink in all the rush.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 17 September 2012, 01:33:59
Last first:  from the manner in which the last page was written and signed off by the master, I'm thinking that log belongs ONLY to the ship, not the crew.  No ship, nothing to log.  It surprised me a bit, but it is consistent with when Otter was dismantled and scrapped in Hong Kong.  The ship was decommissioned at noon, and that is when the log was formally signed off by the captain no less.  No further record of the officers leaving or the dock yard taking over, because she was no longer an active navy ship.  And I'm wondering if the Captain's log may be different and continue the record, as he was still active captain of that crew.  But I'm not likely to travel to the east coast to get a look see at it.  Any experienced sailors, please confirm my guesses.

Quote
They beached and abandoned the vessel. (a fair thing to do if you are on fire)
Last section mentions 'ship could hardly force her way through'. 
Through what, if is she is beached?
The last paragraph is simply the weather and sea report required to be written every watch, only this time it covers the whole day.

The word "hardly" meant they managed slow movement - they were sailing all morning (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0189_0.jpg), and they did manage to finally ground the ship near the beach at 7:30pm, but 20 inches (50 cm) of slush ice when the winds have reduced to light airs and the ship has lost its engine room to fire and is therefore dependent entirely on sail has to be hard going.

My best guesses.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 14 October 2012, 18:12:43
Kevin Wood gave us a link for the Jeannette that is equally relevant to the Rodgers.  It is the yearly Navy Report to Congress, those sections from 1881, 1882, 1883 and 1884 involving "Arctic Expeditions - The Jeannette, the Rodgers, and the Alliance." THE official summarized history.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/jeanette.htm
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 14 October 2012, 19:52:26
Please say 'thank you' to Kevin for us
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: sbpj on 25 October 2012, 21:03:36
>randi_2 - Re: OCD guide to weather reports.  THOSE ARE NEAT BOXES!  Will try my best......  however, how did you place the two red marker dots and having done so how do you move them down line by line?  I feel I am missing something frightfully obvious.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 October 2012, 21:26:50
In practice, the red dots are imaginary.  And vary some from page to page, depending on the exact length of your box.  But it is relatively easy.

Draw your first one with the hour showing and extra margin on the right, and look at what part of the weather columns the 'ue' in 'refueling' is (that's middle of the entry box.)  Next one, click the bottom printed line of the next hour, a bit to the left of the marked point, to start the staggering, making that spot the second "red dot."  Third line, click the bottom of the third line of readings in the original spot.  Etc.

It takes a little practice, but there is an easy rhythm to it that makes it easier to do than to describe.

Most of us end up with a very useful staggered arrangement that is very practical, but slightly messy.  A few of us are so inherently organized, the stagger arrangement becomes a piece of art.  Go for what works for you. ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: sbpj on 25 October 2012, 22:18:25
thank you for that and obviously I am trying to run before walking BUT the huge lesson learned tonight is never again to attempt to move a box around using the silly little square thing on my laptop.  ALL future transcriptions will be done on the PC sitting at a desk and not lolling in this armchair with laptop on knee and swearing.............. Good night!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 October 2012, 23:11:45
(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10001/type-smiley.gif)

 ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 26 October 2012, 03:18:10
sbpj,

Caro has a topic Guides for US logs (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3078.msg49657#msg49657). There is a lot of useful information there. My instructions for drawing the boxes are also in the topic: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3078.msg54202#msg54202

(As you probably realized from Janet's explanation, the red dots were added with the Snipping Tool ;))
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 26 November 2012, 19:45:40
Water temp is varying between 47 and 57 degrees during day - this is noted on the Record of Misc Events page too as something exceptional. I've logged this under events - is there any point in noting this to the scientists?  See 8am to meridian and 6 to 8 pm

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0070_1.jpg

Thanks,
Joan
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 26 November 2012, 19:48:54
The computer will note it for them.  and they know how to check the pages. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 26 November 2012, 20:05:31
This happened on the Corwin when the vessel approached the mouth of the Yukon river. http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3002.msg49863#msg49863

See Philip's comments following this post if the Rodgers situation is similar.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 27 November 2012, 09:35:07
Thanks Janet.
Craig - what a memory bank! I am in awe...she has, at the end of that day, reached St Michael's so has just gone through the waters of the Yukon delta. It sounded like she was going through streams of meltwater - especially with the bottom samples showing gray sand (and clearly undulating). That's very satisfying.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 13 December 2012, 03:45:17
How should I enter the proportion of cloud when it just shows what is either 11 or a "  ?
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0083_0.jpg (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0083_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 13 December 2012, 04:36:51
Hi Stuart - I think that the '11' is actually a zero. There are a number of log keepers around who write '0' using two strikes of the pen. It sometimes results in '11' appearing to have been written. Have a look at this page just a couple of days on - early morning, especially the 9 o'clock readings - barometer readings ending in '0' also start to look like '11':
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0086_0.jpg
His '2' gets pretty eccentric too!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 13 December 2012, 04:44:55
Ta.
will do.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 13 December 2012, 06:47:53
I agree with Joan; I have seen that too.
Take a look at the 11am water temperature.
Also, 0 makes the best sense.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 13 December 2012, 16:00:52
I wonder if it could be a 9 as per what it looks like at the 01:00 on the next page.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0084_0.jpg (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0084_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 13 December 2012, 17:11:18
Some of them look a bit like 9's, but not all. Also, with of, od, and om, 9/10 clear sky seems unlikely.
I would eliminate 11 because 11/10 clear sky doesn't make any sense.

However, the rule is that, after listening to our words of wisdom, you have to decide what you see. This is a difficult case. Like Joan, I think they are 0's, but if you think they are dittos, 9's, or 11's, that is what you should put.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 13 December 2012, 18:17:50
Some of them look a bit like 9's, but not all. Also, with of, od, and om, 9/10 clear sky seems unlikely.
I would eliminate 11 because 11/10 clear sky doesn't make any sense.

However, the rule is that, after listening to our words of wisdom, you have to decide what you see. This is a difficult case. Like Joan, I think they are 0's, but if you think they are dittos, 9's, or 11's, that is what you should put.

Gulp!  I'm not sure I ever wanted to be this grown up!  ;)
Good luck Stuart!  ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 17 January 2013, 04:23:52
Just to mention that, for some reason, the log keeper notes the start of October 1881 as 1882:

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0130_1.jpg
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: jil on 20 January 2013, 18:22:29
Found this while looking for Jeannette related stuff:
Proceedings of the California Academy of Sciences June 6th 1881 (http://international.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mtfgc&fileName=39416//mtfgc39416.db&recNum=0&itemLink=r?intldl/mtfront:@field%28NUMBER+@od1%28mtfgc+39416%29%29&linkText=0) - includes reception given to the Captain and officers of the US Steamer Rodgers
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 20 January 2013, 19:21:39
That looks interesting - when I get fine mins I'll have a  trawl through it... 8) :D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 23 January 2013, 03:35:09
Baro entry error 10pm reads 39.37 should be 29.37
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0152_0.jpg (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0152_0.jpg)

Also same day 24 Oct 1881
Commences & until 4 AM. At 3.20 saw a very vivid Meteor in the N'd & Wd.
Whilst looking for which meteor it may have been I came across this.
http://www.phenomena.org.uk (http://www.phenomena.org.uk)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 23 January 2013, 04:07:01
Couldn't trace the meteor. I wonder if it's in some Russian archive somewhere? :-\
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 23 January 2013, 23:29:56
St Lawrence Bay, Siberia.
Final port of call for the Rodgers.
(http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/alaskawcanada&CISOPTR=2474&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=802&DMHEIGHT=638.04947916667&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=1&DMTHUMB=0&DMROTATE=0)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 23 January 2013, 23:59:49
Even 25 years after the Rodgers, the place looks very desolate.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 24 January 2013, 00:08:35
4th Nov 1881.

'Engaged in making the ship snug'

They looked after the ships in those days.  ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 24 January 2013, 10:57:44
St Lawrence Bay, Siberia.
Final port of call for the Rodgers.


I laughed at both buildings - how small St Lawrence is! THEN I noticed the shanty town of TENTS..obviously because it get's so warm up there who could possibly sleep inside?  :o :o
There must have been a hot trade in hot water bottles up there...bbbbbrrrrr
Then again the Rodgers would probably have warmed it up nicely on the night of the the 30th Nov if she'd hung around.  ::)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 25 January 2013, 13:03:19
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0135_1.jpg

8 am to Meridian
Wind blowing in squalls. Pleasant Weather.      ::) ::)

What are they putting in the water on the Rodgers (happy poet pills?)? they really are the jolly rodgers come what may.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 January 2013, 13:09:58
I don't know, I've been out on a March day that has very pleasant spring weather and is celebrating it by brisk squalls of wind getting your attention so you appreciate the bright balmy feel.  Good Kite weather.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 25 January 2013, 13:33:19
Oh yes indeed - good kite weather - I love kites
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Dean on 25 January 2013, 13:45:52
I've been told to 'go fly a kite' several times!!! ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 25 January 2013, 14:51:35
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 January 2013, 15:21:29
Of course!!  Haven't we all? ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 25 January 2013, 16:44:00
Nov 17th 1881
Ensign Hunt comes back to the ship saying that the dogs could not drag sledges with 7 days provisions on board.
Next day he sets out with 10 days provisions and trade articles.
Dogs must have trained well over night.  :o
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 January 2013, 17:29:05
or they might have come up with more dogs and/or another sledge. ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 25 January 2013, 17:39:15
No mention made re that.

And how is things in your neck of the woods Janet?

Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: olems on 25 January 2013, 18:49:17
Maybe someone showed him how to release the sled brakes.

Nov 17th - less than two weeks left then?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 25 January 2013, 19:05:58
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 25 January 2013, 19:30:02
Grimly I just got to the 8th October when Berry sets a party on land - including Master Putnam - who comes to a sticky end when he is caught on an ice floe and everyone else has to watch him floating out to sea (despite valiant attempts at saving him) - never to be seen again.  :-\ :(
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 25 January 2013, 19:45:05
And how is things in your neck of the woods Janet?

Averagely cold for January, and our snow drought has temporarily broken.  After a new record of 335 days without a full inch of snow, we had a light snowfall this morning that dropped 1.1 inches (3 cm).  Hoping there will be more - the water level in the Lakes has reached an all time low, 24" (62 cm) below average.  Actual harbors are starting to dry up.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 26 January 2013, 00:06:43
I think The Rodgers is now completed.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 26 January 2013, 00:44:18
Congrats on completing your voyage!! :)

Rodgers has reached the rounded-up-100% point, I was just given another page to transcribe, Oct. 1st, 1881.  She needs a finishing push into the harbor.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Dean on 26 January 2013, 09:07:35
or they might have come up with more dogs and/or another sledge. ;)
Nov 17th 1881
Ensign Hunt comes back to the ship saying that the dogs could not drag sledges with 7 days provisions on board.
Next day he sets out with 10 days provisions and trade articles.
Dogs must have trained well over night.  :o

See below!!!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 26 January 2013, 09:16:32
Congrats on completing your voyage!! :)

Rodgers has reached the rounded-up-100% point, I was just given another page to transcribe, Oct. 1st, 1881.  She needs a finishing push into the harbor.

Me too Janet - looks like we might be the last two (so presumably they are still collecting 5 transcriptions for this one?)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 26 January 2013, 12:27:25
Just tried to get to a page and nothing came up - just a blank page that looked like it was going to show an image - but no image appeared. THEN again - I've just been installing a new internet hub so it may be that it's  a case of the hub settling down?   I'll try again in an hour.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 26 January 2013, 12:41:01
Just got back from coffee, and its fine at this side of the pond.  Transcription page came up immediately.  Hope your side fixes itself. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 26 January 2013, 17:45:50
Working again now, thanks Janet.  ;D I think that I was up against a load of bored teenagers playing games, and the rest watching for the sports scores - sigh! ::)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 26 January 2013, 19:04:05
It is the weekend, and you are in a university town (as I am.)  That many kids and single adults around does things to all kinds of schedules. 8)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 31 January 2013, 04:48:36
I'm still picking up pages - 19th October now for those interested to know.  ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 31 January 2013, 09:54:26
A moment of seasonal significance (20th Oct 1881) :

 "reported that the Whaler stopped for water - also reported all the whalers leaving the Arctic"

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0148_1.jpg
Merid to 4pm

The Rodgers, expecting to be in the arctic for winter snugs down by building a reading room for the men, and a smoking room. It's like a London  gentlemen's club!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 31 January 2013, 19:54:01
Instructions from the Navy Hydrographic Office in 1890.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 01 February 2013, 04:01:17
WOW! that's fascinating Kevin. Never crossed my mind that there could be a rule about the date you leave the arctic. I guess it's like banning swimmers from a rip tide beach - who wants the dangerous job of saving them? Apart from the obvious (i.e. risk of death) I wonder what the penalty was for staying so far North - did they get fined? I might investigate. I guess after the travails of the 1870's/80's the Govt had probably had enough of expensive, heroic, rescues.  :-X :-\
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 01 February 2013, 04:18:04
Most probably, the punishment was the withdrawal of all possible help the week after their deadline.  "We have told you what is safe and what to do; we are going to respect our own safety rules.  If you get stuck in the ice, there won't be any vessels near to break you free, unless you sit and freeze there for the month it takes to sail an ice-breaker in."

I know of a friend of a friend who is impossibly rich and had his own private plane.  He got stranded on an Aleutian island having run out of fuel, only find no fuel stores there.  The Air Force did indeed fly barrels of fuel in for him, and charged him for the cost of the fuel plus the shipping expenses of running a long flight for no other reason.  I think it worked out to something on the order of $1,000 per gallon. ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 01 February 2013, 10:29:55
Alas, didn't prevent many whalers from getting frozen in and having to be rescued by the BEAR Overland Expedition two years later. There was also a note in the Pacific Coast Pilot that suggested the insurance policies of ships still in the Bering Sea after some date (Oct. 15?) would be invalidated.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 01 February 2013, 10:54:40
Alas, didn't prevent many whalers from getting frozen in and having to be rescued by the BEAR Overland Expedition two years later. There was also a note in the Pacific Coast Pilot that suggested the insurance policies of ships still in the Bering Sea after some date (Oct. 15?) would be invalidated.

I've never yet seen a rule that granted everyone enough common sense to understand that the risks applied to them, not just everyone else.  And I've never yet known a person - myself included - who didn't sometimes fall into that trap of over-confidence.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 01 February 2013, 11:20:27
Here is the link to the full Report on Ice and Ice Movements in the Bering Sea and Arctic Ocean (1890):

http://archive.org/details/reporticeandice00simpgoog

It lacks the map appendix  but I may have them and will post them later.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 01 February 2013, 12:22:35
I think it worked out to something on the order of $1,000 per gallon. ;D
'Just desserts!'  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Craig on 01 February 2013, 12:48:30
Here is the link to the full Report on Ice and Ice Movements in the Bering Sea and Arctic Ocean (1890):

http://archive.org/details/reporticeandice00simpgoog

It lacks the map appendix  but I may have them and will post them later.

Very interesting, Kevin!  The report was apparently printed in 1890 but it contains references to the second Corwin voyage of 1895 (page 14).

In any case, it was too late for the Jeannette. I wonder how much research De Long did into the currents in the Arctic ocean before they sailed? Probably there was little known then about the conditions north of Wrangell Island but some information about being trapped in a floe must have been. On page 21 the report talks about the vicinity of Herald island: 
Quote
A vessel once caught in the pack in this vicinity is carried off to the northward and westward, and it is only a question of time that she will be broken up and sunk by the working and grinding of the ice.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 01 February 2013, 13:53:45
They no doubt prepared as best they could, but the little good information available was likely overwhelmed by speculative geography, such as Silas Bent's 'On the Thermal Pathways to the Pole' http://books.google.com/books?id=QYwqAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA31&ots=mSmSoqEA2h&dq=Silas%20Bent%20thermal%20pathways&pg=PA40#v=onepage&q=Silas%20Bent%20thermal%20pathways&f=false
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 01 February 2013, 14:15:14
If imagination wasn't that wonderfully fertile, no one would want to explore the unknown.  I can see why they wanted the scientific expedition better now, I'd thought they knew they would be studying solid ice.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 01 February 2013, 14:29:45
Don't know if these details need to go to the scientists:
Sudden drop in Therm Attchd readings at 8 am & disruption in barometer reading at that time:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0151_0.jpg

No reason for these changes in misc events....
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0151_1.jpg
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 01 February 2013, 15:08:09
I don't think we need to notify them, I think the numbers are self-explanatory, the "29.nothing" will automatically be red-flagged.  I'm thinking either someone propped the door open to see what happens to the readings and make the readings closer to outdoors.  Whoever was reading them every hour probably hated the idea.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 01 February 2013, 15:32:54
Seems odd though Janet. they are just making the ship more snug for winter quarters - when it appears that the barometer gets evicted (back in early October the therm attchd was 70F+). I reckon it's due to the new reading/smoking room being built..perhaps the barometer has been moved into a new section of unheated boat?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 01 February 2013, 15:41:33
That makes sense - a warm reading room is preferred to a warm barometer. ;)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 01 February 2013, 16:25:10
Wow - it's blowing a near-hurricane and they're steaming on the anchor. Is there a comment the next day?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 01 February 2013, 16:44:50
yes there is Kevin:
Commence to 4 am:  Used Engine to relieve chain - going four (4) bells
at strongest puffs.[...] Barometer very unsteady
going from 42 to 28 in 20 mins.

(It'd have your ears popping at that rate?!?  ;D ;D)  On the whole they do seem to have suffered very blustery weather over the last week - they've also just taken down the top rigging and yards etc for the winter.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 02 February 2013, 01:10:39
By the way, at Point Barrow the temperature increased 43 degrees F during a 100+ mph gale in the winter of 1881 or 82, and so much sand and gravel was in the air that 'no living thing could stand before it'. So really big temperature swings are not unheard of in this region...
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 02 February 2013, 15:33:45
Largest leap in wind speed in one hour that I've seen (29/10/1881 at 2 am)  0 to 9:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0157_0.jpg  :o
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 02 February 2013, 20:07:28
01/11/1881: http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0160_1.jpg
Meridian to 4 PM: Put up Anenometer. Registered 50 miles per hour at 4 PM
----------------------------------------------
No more details than that I'm sorry to say. :-\  then again it's clearly The New Toy: ::) ::)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Anenometer registered 50 miles  per hour at 6 PM   
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: olems on 03 February 2013, 13:39:42
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0131_1.jpg (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0131_1.jpg)
Last line of log reads "~ blink on starboard beam between 9+11 P.m. Barometer rising."
What's the first word in that sentence? It's three letters and the last two could be 'el' but I can't figure out something for the first letter that makes sense in context.

In the same log, Meridian to 4 pm. "Got cast in 17 faths water. Water resembled a shoal. but got more water than onstal of it- Grey sandy bottom in discolored water."
I read a word there as 'onstal', but that's not really a word, is it?

Rodgers logkeeping is a bit stream of consciousness. A big leap from the simple, uncreative ways of the Concord crew that I've gotten used to.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Helen J on 03 February 2013, 13:49:25
The three letter word looks to me like 'ice' - though what an 'ice blink' is I have no idea!

And I also read 'onstal' and am equally convinced it's not a word at all ....
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: olems on 03 February 2013, 14:02:35
Ice blink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_blink) is apparently a thing! Thanks, learned something today :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Helen J on 03 February 2013, 14:47:06
Me too!  Whether I'll ever be able to remember what it is is another question.  :D
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 03 February 2013, 14:56:39
I did that page too - never found out what 'onstal' was - can't help thinking  this was someone not concentrating on what they were writing. Did get Ice blink though.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 03 February 2013, 16:06:19
Ice blink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_blink) is apparently a thing! Thanks, learned something today :)

There's a photo of it in my Sea Ice Types (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3432.0) list.  When I found the picture, I thought is had been photoshopped. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 03 February 2013, 16:26:20
I forgot about that - great picture - it does look weird.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 03 February 2013, 16:49:30
'Water Sky' is something of an opposite of ice blink, the other word didn't translate for me either.

They also saw several flocks of auks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auk. I was hoping they were great auks but those turns out are N. Atlantic (and already extinct  c. 1844).

If someone would like to post (or PM) the ship's position I could see if there is a MODIS satellite picture showing what the sort of discolored water they're seeing looks like today....
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 03 February 2013, 17:00:51
Hi Kevin,
She sets off from Herald Island on 30th Sept, and fetches up on 5th October at Cape Serdze-Kamen. The page referred to is the 3rd October.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 03 February 2013, 17:02:26
You picked the WRONG ship for that question ::)

According to the logs (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0130_0.jpg, http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0132_0.jpg) on the previous and following days, their location is "Arctic Ocean".



I never saw a lat/long reading when I was doing Rodgers ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 03 February 2013, 17:11:09
'Water Sky' is something of an opposite of ice blink, the other word didn't translate for me either.
I never heard of Water Sky - is my photo that, and what color is Ice Blink?  I'm not surprised if I got them confused.

Quote
They also saw several flocks of auks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auk. I was hoping they were great auks but those turns out are N. Atlantic (and already extinct  c. 1844).

If someone would like to post (or PM) the ship's position I could see if there is a MODIS satellite picture showing what the sort of discolored water they're seeing looks like today....

Here is a couple, but there is a problem with location.  The weather page gives the only location as "Arctic Ocean" or nothing at all.
The comments page says several times "following coast" but fails to say which coast.  I've never seen a ship with that little sense of where they are, all the others at least gave landmarks.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0129_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0129_1.jpg

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0131_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0131_1.jpg

Hi, Randi - you beat me to it. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: olems on 03 February 2013, 17:59:56
Yeah, my guess is about two days sailing WNW of Serdze-Kamen, which was apparently the crew's best guess as well.

From the sighting of the river to landfall and dropping off Master Putnam they travelled for two days at ca 5 knots tacking NE and SE against the wind. So anywhere between 50-150 nm along the coast from Serdze-Kamen.

To their defense, not sure there are a lot of landmarks to note in the area. On the other hand it doesn't help that they seem to consider the native settlements as local fauna. When they set up the camp for Putnam, the fact that there were "a great many natives" present is mentioned with about the same interest as a walrus and some whales.

I never heard of Water Sky - is my photo that, and what color is Ice Blink?  I'm not surprised if I got them confused.
http://nsidc.org/arcticmet/basics/phenomena/water_sky.html (http://nsidc.org/arcticmet/basics/phenomena/water_sky.html)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 03 February 2013, 19:02:45
That's a very interesting web site Olems! I read this: http://nsidc.org/arcticmet/quickfacts/mirage_mistakes.html because I seem to recall something about possible mirages on the forum the other day.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 03 February 2013, 21:04:10
OK, ice blink is white, not yellow as some sources stated.  And water sky is dark.  So what was that yellow glare in my found photo?

(https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/thumbnail/photo61/e2/06/baf592bcd368__1352653222000.jpg?tw=0&th=720&s=true&rs=false)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 03 February 2013, 21:36:39
Well, I've never seen ice blink that dramatic looking. Usually a white glare on the horizon like the NSIDC example. Not to say it couldn't look like that...but...where is the sun?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 03 February 2013, 21:42:56
I don't know.  I'd seen captions where someone said ice blink was yellow, so I went with this NASA pic.  Olems' page gave me more authoritative pictures so I just changed them.  Part of what happens when a totally urban landlubber is trying to illustrate the arctic wilderness.  I'm really glad to have an expert here. :)

These are the pics now in use from Olems site:

(http://www.cosmik.com/oldweather/12_sea_ice-ice_blink_white.jpg)

(http://www.cosmik.com/oldweather/27_sea_ice-water_sky.jpg)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 04 February 2013, 03:56:21
That's a very interesting web site Olems! I read this: http://nsidc.org/arcticmet/quickfacts/mirage_mistakes.html because I seem to recall something about possible mirages on the forum the other day.
I was thinking of that too - a mirage (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3338.msg60394#msg60394) was mentioned as an explanation for "A faint gleam of sunlight was visible in Northern horizon at 1 and 2 AM. And at 4 a ruddy tint was to be seen on horizon to NNE. " (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3338.msg60317#msg60317).
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 04 February 2013, 16:26:41
Here is the best satellite view of the area the Rodgers was in...very, very few clear passes this time of year (in fact this is in November 2011). Confirms my own experience with cloudy/foggy weather here and suggests no surprise there are so few positions given in the logbook. You can see lots of (dis)colored water though, from various sources. 
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 04 February 2013, 18:10:22
Looks cold.....bbbbrrrrrr! Thanks for the view :D
The discoloured water fascinates me though.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 04 February 2013, 19:26:16
Looking at the pattern of discoloring, I'm guessing the rivers continue out into the sea as strong currents.  Very interesting.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Kevin on 05 February 2013, 00:12:22
River discharge is a common reason for discolored water, though where it ultimately goes depends on the wind. Often the Yukon discharge joins the Alaska coasta current and flows northward through Bering Strait. The Mackenzie discharge plume, on the other hand, sometimes blows East, sometimes West. There can be a mix of plumes of different age superimposed on each other, so to speak. I think this is the case on the Siberian coast where alongshore currents are frequently wind-driven. Phytoplankton blooms are another cause, especially in the spring. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=588
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 05 February 2013, 17:15:26
Just finished 15th Nov for those waiting to decommission The Rodgers.
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 06 February 2013, 05:03:32
Reality finally comes to rest in the heads of the lovelorn sailors of the Rodgers:

4 to 8 pm: Very disagreeable weather
8 to midnight: A severe night

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0176_1.jpg

It MUST have been bad for them to complain (well it was squally snow in 30+ mph winds - I would have complained  ::))
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 February 2013, 07:35:08
Storms tipping over the line into being a genuine blizzard are always worthy of complaint and respect. :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 08 February 2013, 15:25:05
The poets have a natural phenomena moment:

Very brilliant and grand display of the aurora - the brightest part in the NW.
The light extended from the E. to W. by N., and to the zenith - The light
was so bright at times that objects could be seen at some distance more
 distinctly than during the brightest moonlight - the stars were particularly bright -
The light would pass over the heavens like waves, the outer edges of which were of
 dark blue color & would then run into each other like waves seen in shoal water.

http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0182_1.jpg
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Randi on 08 February 2013, 15:35:04
Lovely!

Would you please give me the page link?
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 09 February 2013, 11:12:51
Oopsie - forgot that:  ::)
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/USS%20Rodgers/Rodgers_1881/b001of010_0182_1.jpg  for 24/11/1881

It's in the Rodgers phenomena list in Natural Phenomena page 23: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=384.msg61038#msg61038
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 10 February 2013, 01:05:27
Rodgers has achieved VAL!!  She is finished and in final harbor.

Arfon says he will be working on being sure the other ships will go to VAL when completed, Rodgers has been so set manually.

(It is the weekend. :) )
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 10 December 2013, 14:28:58
The Rodgers gets mentioned at the start of this article, as her misadventure triggered the expedition.

13th August 1886 - http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USRC%20Bear/vol065/vol065_108_1.jpg

Sent an officer to the station and brought off Ensign Howard and one man of the Stoney Expedition.

While checking to confirm the names I found an acticle (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_33/July_1888/Arctic_Alaska#top) written by Ensign Howard about the expedition. The Rodgers (as Lieut. Stoney was one of her officers), Jeannette and Corwin also get a mention but not the Bear which is a bit mean if they are giving him a lift home!
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 10 November 2015, 14:23:23
Very, very excited to be looking through this page from the New Bedford Whaling Museum:
http://www.whalingmuseum.org/learn/research-topics/overview-of-north-american-whaling/whales-hunting

to find the reference to 'Steaming to the Arctic....The first American steam whaler, the Mary and Helen, sailed from New Bedford in 1879' which rang a distant bell. After a few seconds it came to me - The Mary and Helen was bought by the US Navy in 1881 to find The Jeannette, and was renamed The Rodgers.
So excited to recall this!

It's sad fate is not mentioned in the whaling pages needless to say.  :)
Title: Re: Rodgers -- Discussion: Questions and Comments
Post by: AvastMH on 01 January 2019, 11:18:07
An interesting story about a note in a bottle (from 1981):
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/04/06/world/letter-in-bottle-recalls-lost-chapter-in-arctic-exploration.html

One of the Rodgers' 'message in a bottle' is found.  Thanks for posting this Kevin :)