Old Weather Forum

Old Weather: Classic => The Dockyard => Topic started by: Randi on 12 February 2014, 06:59:50

Title: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Randi on 12 February 2014, 06:59:50
Many logs have a variety of additional data that we are not currently using, and the question of how to handle them has come up several times.

We have checked with Philip and Kevin.

The response is: "The difficulty with data like this is that we can't promise to use it - it's tempting, it's interesting, but we don't KNOW that it will be used in science - there's a risk that transcribing it will be a waste of someone's time."

HOWEVER, they have also suggested creating a topic (this one): "... wherein a brief note about what it is and where it can be found could be posted. Since the US logs will be available in perpetuity on the National Archives website it would be easy enough for someone to go back for it later. We should then put a notice in the edited/finished document for the ship of what was seen."



Please continue to note:
Sunspots, aurorae, erratic compass bearings and unusual radio reception in Old Space Weather: sightings of aurorae and sunspots (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=3670.0)
and
Volcanic activity in Natural Phenomena (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=384.0)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Randi on 12 February 2014, 07:54:16
Jamestown (1879)

Jan 1880 - Sitka, Alaska
(not currently sure about earlier and later logs)

Temperature on Shore is entered in the State of the Sea column.
e.g., http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Jamestown/vol042of040/vol042of067_072_0.jpg

Events page includes description of weather, surf, tide, and water temperature.
e.g., http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Jamestown/vol042of040/vol042of067_072_1.jpg
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: camiller on 12 February 2014, 10:00:17
This is GREAT topic to add, Randi!  Elsewhere in the forum it's mentioned that serious researchers who would use this 'extra' data would want to transcribe it from the logs themselves anyway.   How will this forum topic be linked to the ships so that researchers know it's there?

Albatross 1884 in the Caribbean Sea:
On the remarks pages, the log records sounding depths and types of bottom sediments.  The log also records the timing of deployment of other scientific gear and movements on and off shore of scientific parties, but not the resultant data.   The log provides the schedule for everything that was happening on the ship, which is interesting itself, and also sometimes explains the timing and location of a scientific observation, or lack thereof.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Craig on 12 February 2014, 11:46:23
In the Jeannette logs the water density was recorded for a while (at the surface, 6 fathoms and 20 fathoms if I remember correctly). I transcribed this in the Events tab but perhaps not from when they started to appear..
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Clewi on 12 February 2014, 12:02:17
In the Jeannette logs the water density was recorded for a while (at the surface, 6 fathoms and 20 fathoms if I remember correctly). I transcribed this in the Events tab but perhaps not from when they started to appear..

And the reason for this is also interesting, although it isn't mentioned in the logbook IIRC, but in one of the accounts, I think Melville. And that's the problem: I've got tons of bonus material that I could add either as footnotes, crossreferences or a seperate document, but I don't know how to do it, especially as I don't have the transcribed log. Not sure what happened to it. It didn't show up again since the transcript was finished.

I think the Jeannette expedition is by far the best documented one so far (first hand accounts, that is!). It'd be a shame not to use it!
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Michael on 12 February 2014, 14:03:22
Concord has been recording depth soundings and type of bottom at times during their voyages, currents and depth of water at anchorage etc. The latter especially at anchorage in the Min River near Fuzhou. It seemed to me that the depth soundings and type of bottom during transit might have been some kind of survey because there would be lots of soundings for a day or two when in transit around Korea or China, and then nothing for days. Usually, when they anchor, they record the bottom type and depth. They also record, every day when in port, how much food and what type they are buying for the crew; things like, "114 lbs of bread 128 1/2 lbs of fresh beef and vegetables". Not very interesting to me, but maybe to a dietician or someone else in the health sciences.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Hanibal94 on 12 February 2014, 16:33:51
The Pioneer has been recording the surface temperature (in Celsius!) while at sea. I have been transcribing this as "Event: Other".

So, for the page http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Pioneer/Book%2046%20-%20July-September,%201933/IMG_0326_0.jpg

I did it like this:

Quote
Surf. Temp.: 14.2 C at 35 08 N, 121 07 W
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 12 February 2014, 16:36:18
That looks perfect, Hanibal.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: asterix135 on 12 February 2014, 17:23:22
Doesn't surface temperature go in the water temerature column?

If not, I have lots of horrible entries on the Patterson.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 12 February 2014, 17:35:08
Actually, both methods look right to me.  Because the surface temperature comes attached to a lat/long location.  But it is also on a time line.  Which means I need to ask Philip.  I'll get back to you both.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Randi on 12 February 2014, 17:40:22
Patterson, at least here, http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Patterson/Book%201/IMG_4949_0.jpg,
has the water temperature in the water temperature column, so that is how it should be transcribed.

When "surface temperature" is written beside the weather data table and the water temperature column is left blank, it is less obvious how to handle it.



I see that Janet is taking care of it ;)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Michael on 12 February 2014, 19:30:43
Concord, deviation of the compass.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 13 February 2014, 08:21:38
The Pioneer has been recording the surface temperature (in Celsius!) while at sea. I have been transcribing this as "Event: Other".

So, for the page http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Pioneer/Book%2046%20-%20July-September,%201933/IMG_0326_0.jpg

I did it like this:

Quote
Surf. Temp.: 14.2 C at 35 08 N, 121 07 W
Doesn't surface temperature go in the water temerature column?

If not, I have lots of horrible entries on the Patterson.


Well, I asked Philip "Pioneer is providing daily surface temps attached to a lat/long location.  Hanibal is recording the whole statement as an event.  Asterix is putting in the water temp field in the weather readings. Which is right, or do both work?  Help - my instinct says they are both doing something that works."  And got this answer.  Neither of you are to change anything.  :)

Blowed if I know - Asterix's method has the advantage that the obs will be routinely extracted (no special case required), Hanibal's method has the advantage that it marks the ob as possibly something other than the bog-standard sea-temperature.

Generally if two experienced transcribers are doing something different it's because there's neither approach is obviously better than the other, and that's true here. They are both doing a good job and might as well each carry on as they are doing.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: asterix135 on 13 February 2014, 10:23:56
aye aye cap'n.  Will carry on

thanks!
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: camiller on 13 February 2014, 21:20:01
Mapurves, thanks for pointing out some other "data" that I have been taking for granted that might be interesting to social scientists.

The Jamestown 1844 also has a daily list of the type and amount of foods used that day and the remaining "on hand".  In the remarks they record everything received on the ship - water, food, supplies, lumber, etc.   And there is a daily "sick report".

Now, if only they had recorded air pressure that often!
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Kathy on 16 February 2014, 12:20:07
Just wanted to mention that the Vicksburg includes a narrative description of the weather for each watch on the Events of the Day page.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 16 February 2014, 12:23:13
Just wanted to mention that the Vicksburg includes a narrative description of the weather for each watch on the Events of the Day page.

That is required comment in all US military and coast guard ships and most science vessels.  It is very common, and most mention-only transcribers skip it.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Hanibal94 on 16 February 2014, 12:32:12
Just wanted to mention that the Vicksburg includes a narrative description of the weather for each watch on the Events of the Day page.

That is required comment in all US military and coast guard ships and most science vessels.  It is very common, and most mention-only transcribers skip it.

Seen it on the Pioneer too. I ignore it and just do the regular WR on the weather pages.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Craig on 16 February 2014, 13:31:20
This weather information is mostly redundant but it sometimes helps clarify the codes.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Pommy Stuart on 13 February 2015, 02:39:03
No idea what to do with this.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Concord/vol027of040/vol027of040_159_0.jpg (http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USS%20Concord/vol027of040/vol027of040_159_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Randi on 13 February 2015, 04:00:06
Not too much you can do with it ::)
Posting it here is fine ;)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 23 March 2015, 10:16:16
Those department reports are online for most departments, altho not the most current ones.  And very interesting and informative they can be.  But I was wondering about the actual field logbooks filled out by the scientists in sync with the ship's logbook.  Our logs tell us they dredged this afternoon,  the field logbooks would tell us what specimens they pulled up. 



Found them - the scan date on some is December 2014 so I may have simply looked too soon.  Some Biodiversity Library did the scanning apparently, but they are still copyright-free gov't docs. 
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/search?searchTerm=albatross+field+notes#/titles index.

The 1899-1900 great circle journey is at here plus others (3 month books)
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/176710#page/1/
They don't list the specimens here at all, but they do list deep ocean temperatures and some of those may interest Philip.  I don't think any other ship in our fleet is taking the bottom ocean temperature in the Mariana Trench.  (Of course, all the temps are handwritten and no one has yet transcribed them.)  :)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Randi on 24 March 2015, 13:49:22
Actually, the deep-ocean data people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ocean_Database_Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Ocean_Database_Project)) have been at this data rescue business much longer (http://www.iode.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=100087 (http://www.iode.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=100087)) than us surface/atmosphere people. However they do look at different documents, have quite different scientific requirements, and I don't think they have a citizen science project.

So I (and the oW science team) don't do sub-surface data, because there are already other people doing that (it's a whole seperate scientific field that I know little about) - so you don't need to transcribe any such observations you find (I don't know what to do with them, and they may already be known), but please do mention their existence in the forum, so that when the oceanographers start taking an interest we can tell them where to look.

This is the place to record them ;)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Randi on 24 March 2015, 18:42:44
I have been thinking and working for quite some time on the best ways to capture and preserve all of the work that OW volunteers are accomplishing that is not part of the instrumental weather data stream. One of the very compelling things we can do is relate the transcriptions back to the original documents at the US National Archives and elsewhere, which will enable word and attribute search of the high resolution image collection, and dual display of content. In the same way we can work with multiple repositories to unite different sources of information that stems directly from the ships' logbooks, but are accessioned in different collections. For example, this field note book (https://transcription.si.edu/project/6983) was kept by William Dall, the Coast Survey officer in charge of the schooner Yukon in 1880 and transcribed by the Smithsonian; the corresponding logbook was imaged at the National Archives and transcribed by Old Weather volunteers. When we're done then, you'll be able to see everything OW has accomplished, along with related items like this, and know that it has become part of a curated digital collection that will be available for research in the future. Almost certainly research we haven't imagined.
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: AvastMH on 25 March 2015, 14:44:31
Fantastic - it's great to know that our work will benefit the archives so much  :)
Title: Re: Interesting data found but not transcribed (meteorological, oceanographic, etc.)
Post by: Hanibal94 on 03 December 2015, 08:36:30
Found an insert containing a bunch of surface ocean temperatures:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Patterson/Book%20129/IMG_4971_1.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ow3/final/USCS%20Patterson/Book%20129/IMG_4972_1.jpg

(This is all March 1905, during a trip from Hawaii to Seattle)