Old Weather Forum

Library => The voyages, the work, the people, the places => Topic started by: Randi on 29 March 2012, 06:56:40

Title: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 29 March 2012, 06:56:40
I thought I would start collecting Raleigh related information here. If someone comes up with a better idea we can change it ;)

If anyone wants to make contributions, please add them to this thread and I will try to merge them all into one list.

Place Names
For Latin American place names see: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2013.msg36994#msg36994
(for .docx file see http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2013.msg31060#msg31060)
For other place names see the following post: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2630.msg38756#msg38756

Ship Names
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2630.msg38757#msg38757

People's Names
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2630.msg38758#msg38758

Interesting/Significant/Insignificant Items
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2630.msg38801#msg38801 - Thanks Janet!
An account of the loss of Raleigh and the days after by one of the ships Midshipmen. (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2630.msg39544#msg39544) - PeteB9
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=718.msg39344#msg39344 - PeteB9
Re: If you find letters or other misc in the logbooks... - for Raleigh (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=718.msg38779#msg38779)
Re: Barometers, Instrumentation and Specifications by Ship - for Raleigh (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=1844.msg38796#msg38796)

Helpful Hints
At least some bearings are given in degrees (343o). As discussed in this thread (http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2591.msg37737#msg37737), I have transcribed it as 343o
8 is sometimes written oddly - see attachment
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh - Place Names
Post by: Randi on 29 March 2012, 06:57:42
For NON Latin American Place Names.

Bishop Lt       UK               Bishop Rock          49 52 00 N,   6 27 00 W

Cranberry Lt    Canada, N.S.     Cranberry Islands    45 20 00 N,  60 56 00 W     
                                                      (http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/ns3.htm)
Gut of Canso    Canada, N.S.     Strait of Canso      45 35 00 N,  61 23 00 W
                                 Gut of Canso (var)
Eddy Pt         Canada, N.S.     Eddy Point           at the southern entrance to the Strait of Canso from Chedabucto Bay
                                                      (http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/ns3.htm)
Henry Is Lt     Canada, N.S.     Henry Island         on the west side of Cape Breton Island facing St. George's Bay
                                                      (http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/ns2.htm)
East Point Lt   Canada, Quebec   ? East Point         49 08 00 N,  61 40 00 W


In Montreal there is a 'Laurier Pier'



Possibly useful map of Montreal: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212320~5500352:Shell-Street-Guide-and-Metropolitan?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where/Montreal%20%28Quebec%29;q:montreal;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=14&trs=16


For Latin American place names see: http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2013.msg36994#msg36994
(for .docx file see http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2013.msg31060#msg31060)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh - Ship Names
Post by: Randi on 29 March 2012, 06:59:30
26 July 1921 ___ Devonport + Plymouth Sound

9 Aug 1921 ___ Plymouth/Devonport to Bermuda

15th August 1921 - thanks Geoff

19 Aug 1921 ___ Bermuda (Grassy Bay)

22 Aug 1921 ___ Bermuda (Grassy Bay)

23 Aug 1921 ___ Bermuda (Murray's Anchorage)

1 Sept 1921 ___ Bermuda to Montreal

8 Sept 1921 ___ Montreal
Quote
In September, 1921, HMCS Patriot assisted Dr. Alexander Graham Bell's hydrofoil research by towing his high speed experimental hydrofoil HD-4. This experiment was conducted on the waters of Baddeck Bay in the Bras d'Or Lake estuary near the village of Baddeck, Nova Scotia.

9 Sept 1921 ___ Montreal

10 Nov 1921 ___ Bermuda

11 - 14 Nov 1921 ___ Bermuda   To  Kingston Jamaica

15 Nov 1921 ___ Bermuda  To  Kingston Jamaica + At Kingston Jamaica

16, 17 Nov 1921 ___ Kingston Jamaica

11 - 14 Feb 1922 ___ San Pedro  To  Panama

19, 20 Feb 1922 ___ Colon  To  Bermuda
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh - People's Names
Post by: Randi on 29 March 2012, 07:00:57
26 July 1921 ___ Devonport + Plymouth Sound

12 Aug 1921 ___ Bermuda

15th August 1921 - thanks Geoff and Bunts
- Midshipmen left ship for "Constance":

24th August 1921 - thanks Geoff
- Joined ship Admirals Staff:

5th September 1921 - thanks (again) Geoff
"Lieut O'Callaghan sent on to Montreal to interview Chief of Police"
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0028_0.jpg

7th September 1921 - thanks Geoff
- Midshipmen left ship for "Cambrian":

11th Nov 1921 - thanks PeteB9
Joseph Brennan Discharged dead
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0062_0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0062_1.jpg

15 Feb 1922 ___ Balboa

Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 29 March 2012, 18:49:10
Just some very interesting things about her in Wiki.

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Raleigh_(1919)

HMS Raleigh was a Hawkins-class heavy cruiser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkins_class_cruiser) of the Royal Navy. She was commissioned as part of the British North Atlantic squadron in 1921.

She had a full load displacement of 12,000 long tons (12,000 t) (light, 9,700 long tons (9,900 t)), an overall length of 605 ft (184 m), and carried a complement of 700 officers and men. She was the only unit of the Hawkins class to be completed with 70,000 shp (52,000 kW) machinery, and on trials off Isle of Arran from 7-9 September 1920 reached her designed speed of 31 kn (36 mph; 57 km/h) at full power of 71,350 shp (53,210 kW). At half power, 35,000 shp (26,000 kW), she still managed to make 28 kn (32 mph; 52 km/h).[2] After trials the ship proceeded to Devonport for completion as a flagship.

In April 1922, Sir William Christopher Pakenham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christopher_Pakenham) was Admiral of the Royal Navy's America and West Indies Station and he designated HMS Raleigh as his flagship. Sir Arthur Bromley was captain of HMS Raleigh. It was through his negligence that the ship was lost.[citation needed] On 8 August 1922, Captain Bromley sped the flagship through a thick fog and ran her aground at Point Amour in Forteau Bay, Labrador. Eleven sailors were drowned in the shipwreck.

The cruiser was a total write-off. The ship remained hard-aground and upright for four years. During this period, she was stripped of all salvageable items and was destroyed with explosives in September 1926.[3]
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Dean on 29 March 2012, 20:00:47
Just joined Raleigh today! I'll try to add things here as I find them!  Glad to be shipmates with all of you! :)

Blessings,  Dean




Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Geoff on 30 March 2012, 03:30:03
15th August 1921.

Some midshipmen left Raleigh for "Constance" - looks like "J. Saunders, E. Baker and C. Firtle [?]"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 30 March 2012, 06:15:11
Quote from: Geoff on 30 March 2012, 03:30:03
15th August 1921.

Some midshipmen left Raleigh for "Constance" - looks like "J. Saunders, E. Baker and C. Firtle [?]"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg)

Have you considered "Firth"? I think that's it.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Dean on 30 March 2012, 19:36:22
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 30 March 2012, 06:15:11
Quote from: Geoff on 30 March 2012, 03:30:03
15th August 1921.

Some midshipmen left Raleigh for "Constance" - looks like "J. Saunders, E. Baker and C. Firtle [?]"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg)

Have you considered "Firth"? I think that's it.

I think I'd go with Bunts.  Take a look at the 'H' on the next line in 'Crane lighter.'  :P
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 30 March 2012, 19:43:36
Quote from: dmaschen on 30 March 2012, 19:36:22
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 30 March 2012, 06:15:11
Quote from: Geoff on 30 March 2012, 03:30:03
15th August 1921.

Some midshipmen left Raleigh for "Constance" - looks like "J. Saunders, E. Baker and C. Firtle [?]"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0017_1.jpg)

Have you considered "Firth"? I think that's it.

I think I'd go with Bunts.  Take a look at the 'H' on the next line in 'Crane lighter.'  :P

"SNAP!"  ;D
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Geoff on 31 March 2012, 03:12:02
"Firth" it is  :)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Geoff on 31 March 2012, 03:26:14
24th August 1921.

More people joining Raleigh:

"Joined ship Admirals Staff:- Paym. Comor. C.A. Ward, Lieut. L.C. Curzon-Howe, Pay. Lt. W.H. Winn, Pay Lt. S. Porlin, Pay Lt. R.H. Nicholson, Lieut. E.C. Beancroft R.N.L.I. and ratings."

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0022_0.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0022_0.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 31 March 2012, 09:46:38
Quote from: Geoff on 31 March 2012, 03:26:14
24th August 1921.

More people joining Raleigh:

"Joined ship Admirals Staff:- Paym. Comor. C.A. Ward, Lieut. L.C. Curzon-Howe, Pay. Lt. W.H. Winn, Pay Lt. S. Porlin, Pay Lt. R.H. Nicholson, Lieut. E.C. Beancroft R.N.L.I. and ratings."

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0022_0.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0022_0.jpg)

I think it is R.M.L.I
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 31 March 2012, 19:53:12
Quote from: randi_2 on 31 March 2012, 09:46:38
Quote from: Geoff on 31 March 2012, 03:26:14
24th August 1921.

More people joining Raleigh:

"Joined ship Admirals Staff:- Paym. Comor. C.A. Ward, Lieut. L.C. Curzon-Howe, Pay. Lt. W.H. Winn, Pay Lt. S. Porlin, Pay Lt. R.H. Nicholson, Lieut. E.C. Beancroft R.N.L.I. and ratings."

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0022_0.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0022_0.jpg)

I think it is R.M.L.I

Yep. It's substantially different from the N in Nicholson on the line above.
And I'm pretty sure that the Royal National Lifeboat Institution doesn't extend its influence to Bermuda; not that they wouldn't want to ...
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Geoff on 01 April 2012, 03:41:57
Quote from: randi_2 on 31 March 2012, 09:46:38

I think it is R.M.L.I

You're right - I was thinking "R.N." = Royal Navy!

Another interesting snippet from the Raleigh, 5th September 1921:

"Lieut O'Callaghan sent on to Montreal to interview Chief of Police"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0028_0.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0028_0.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Geoff on 01 April 2012, 03:59:34
Raleigh, 7th September 1921:

"Left ship for "Cambrian" midshipmen W.L.G. Adams, B.W.G. Clutterbuck and R.W. Reymon R.N."

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0029_0.jpg (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0029_0.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 01 April 2012, 17:19:03
11th Nov 1921

Joseph Brennan Discharged dead

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0062_1.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 02 April 2012, 09:25:09
23rd November. We're going through the Panama Canal.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 04 April 2012, 07:58:42
8 Sept 1921 - Montreal

1430 - Ship open to visitors

1920 - Band paraded on Jetty for Sunset Tattoo.

2020 - Boy scouts visited ship.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Dean on 05 April 2012, 20:14:41
Quote from: randi_2 on 04 April 2012, 07:58:42
8 Sept 1921 - Montreal

1430 - Ship open to visitors

1920 - Band paraded on Jetty for Sunset Tattoo.

2020 - Boy scouts visited ship.

Thanks, Randi_2. I transcribed that page too!! Carefully put it in the logs as EVENT and totally FORGOT to add it here!!! ;)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 06 April 2012, 02:30:51
Adding it here is strictly optional ;D
The key place to put it is in EVENT (and even that is optional),
but sometimes you get things that are fun to share with fellow OWaholics ;)

In a year and a half of transcribing, this is my first Sunset Tattoo!
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 02:41:51
My American insomniac self is too tired to look it up.

What is a 'sunset tattoo'?
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 06 April 2012, 02:58:40
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Military+tattoo
I don't know about SUNSET tattoo specifically.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 03:04:57
Thanks, very interesting.  I hadn't heard about the Heartland Tattoo in this area - it must be attracting military fans and Gaelic culture.  Maybe I'll look it up this summer. :)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 07:45:44
30th May 1922 We're in Washington DC on a 'wave the flag at the Americans' tour  ;D and the log records a photo being taken of the ships company and officers.

I wonder if that photo still exists? Be nice to find it.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0163_0.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Kathy on 06 April 2012, 07:53:14
The Marines have two here in DC (called Sunset Parades) - one at the Marine Barracks in the city and the other at the Iwo Jima Memorial.  I have been to the one at the memorial and it was fantastic - I was on a drill team in high school and let me tell you, the Marines are amazing.  The Army's Old Guard also has a Twilight Parade here, but I have not been to one.  We also went to a Sunset Parade at Fort Henry in Ontario - that was very interesting because the units performed a mock battle in the fighting style of the mid-1860s.  It was fun to see the very orchestrated troop movements.  I also recommend (if anyone gets this way  ;D ) going to the changing of the guard for the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington - there is not really any close order drill to it, but the inspection portion has a lot of flourishes.  This one just gets to me - very solemn and serious.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 08:27:00
Some photo's of HMS Raleigh.

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/great_britain/pages/cruisers/hms_raleigh_page_1.htm
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 11:15:20
They obviously stayed for at least a week, judging from the caption to the photo about the boat race.

(http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/great_britain/photos/cruisers/raleigh/1922_06_03_raleigh.jpg)
June 3, 1922: Crews from HMS Raleigh and the Presidential Yacht Mayflower seen during a 6 oar gig race in the Potomac River, Washington, D.C. with HMS Raleigh in the background. (Note: The U.S. Navy crew won the race by a length.)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 11:48:45
Funny the log page for that day doesn't mention the boat race. Maybe they didn't want to admit they lost.

The log mentions the ship being dressed overall for the Kings Birthday which you can see she is in the background.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 12:43:20
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 11:48:45
Funny the log page for that day doesn't mention the boat race. Maybe they didn't want to admit they lost.

I prefer to think of it as "came second".
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 12:48:23
There is no second place.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 13:06:01
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 12:48:23
There is no second place.

Well ... in the first place I find it difficult to accept your assertion, and in the second place ...  ;D
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 13:24:37
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 13:06:01
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 12:48:23
There is no second place.

Well ... in the first place I find it difficult to accept your assertion, and in the second place ...  ;D

 ;D

http://teamorigin.com/en/the_americas_cup/view/the_history/

"The America crossed the finish first a little over ten and a half hours after starting. The saying goes that on being informed of this significant British maritime defeat, the Queen asked as to who was second. The reply came: ?Ma?am. There is no second.?
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Dean on 06 April 2012, 13:33:11
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 13:24:37
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 13:06:01
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 12:48:23
There is no second place.

Well ... in the first place I find it difficult to accept your assertion, and in the second place ...  ;D

 ;D

http://teamorigin.com/en/the_americas_cup/view/the_history/


"The America crossed the finish first a little over ten and a half hours after starting. The saying goes that on being informed of this significant British maritime defeat, the Queen asked as to who was second. The reply came: ?Ma?am. There is no second.?

And when told to go forth .. he slipped on a banana and came in fifth ;D ;D

Or was that DRINK a fifth??!!! :D :D
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 13:55:11
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 13:24:37
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 13:06:01
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 12:48:23
There is no second place.

Well ... in the first place I find it difficult to accept your assertion, and in the second place ...  ;D

 ;D

http://teamorigin.com/en/the_americas_cup/view/the_history/

"The America crossed the finish first a little over ten and a half hours after starting. The saying goes that on being informed of this significant British maritime defeat, the Queen asked as to who was second. The reply came: ?Ma?am. There is no second.?
"We are not amused." But we are considerably better informed. Ta.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 06 April 2012, 14:36:32
Independence Day reminder from the police:

He who goes forth with a fifth on the fourth
will not go forth on the fifth.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 14:43:35
Change of log book 13th July 1922

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0004_1.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0005_1.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 15:31:22
Those 2 pages are a rare treat.

Most of our logs are monthly copies, some of them are the original log volumes that stay with the ship for an entire voyage (usually 6 months to 2 years.)  Every month, they make a copy of what's written and send it home ASAP, which guarantees that if the ship goes down there will be a record of what she did, right up to the start of her final month.

The copies tend to be neater, and all one handwriting.  But only the very first volume of the voyage original volumes have this extremely detailed description of the ship, her equipment and armament, and her crew.  It is strictly your choice how much of this you transcribe or skip, the pages are completely irrelevant to our weather readings.  But they are really fun and interesting to read.

Thanks for sharing them with us. :)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 16:02:00
Quote from: randi_2 on 06 April 2012, 14:36:32
Independence Day reminder from the police:

He who goes forth with a fifth on the fourth
will not go forth on the fifth.

 ;D
Is that a "sobriety test"? The American equivalent of:
"The Leith police dismisseth us".
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 06 April 2012, 16:27:40
Quote from: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 15:31:22
Those 2 pages are a rare treat.

Most of our logs are monthly copies, some of them are the original log volumes that stay with the ship for an entire voyage (usually 6 months to 2 years.)  Every month, they make a copy of what's written and send it home ASAP, which guarantees that if the ship goes down there will be a record of what she did, right up to the start of her final month.

The copies tend to be neater, and all one handwriting.  But only the very first volume of the voyage original volumes have this extremely detailed description of the ship, her equipment and armament, and her crew.  It is strictly your choice how much of this you transcribe or skip, the pages are completely irrelevant to our weather readings.  But they are really fun and interesting to read.

Thanks for sharing them with us. :)

I transcribe only the barometer and thermometer info (Event / Other) and I post the link at "The Logs >> Barometers, Instrumentation and Specifications by Ship"

PeteB9 - I added your link to the 'list' I had started for Raleigh.

Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 16:40:26
Quote from: randi_2 on 06 April 2012, 16:27:40
Quote from: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 15:31:22
Those 2 pages are a rare treat.

Most of our logs are monthly copies, some of them are the original log volumes that stay with the ship for an entire voyage (usually 6 months to 2 years.)  Every month, they make a copy of what's written and send it home ASAP, which guarantees that if the ship goes down there will be a record of what she did, right up to the start of her final month.

The copies tend to be neater, and all one handwriting.  But only the very first volume of the voyage original volumes have this extremely detailed description of the ship, her equipment and armament, and her crew.  It is strictly your choice how much of this you transcribe or skip, the pages are completely irrelevant to our weather readings.  But they are really fun and interesting to read.

Thanks for sharing them with us. :)

I transcribe only the barometer and thermometer info (Event / Other) and I post the link at "The Logs >> Barometers, Instrumentation and Specifications by Ship"

PeteB9 - I added your link to the 'list' I had started for Raleigh.

Thanks for that. The logs seem to be a little disordered at the moment. Presumably because the original logs may have been lost with the ship and this is a recreation- just a guess at the moment.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 16:49:43
I don't think anything was lost on that ship - the pictures all show her perfectly upright and balanced even if all too uplifted from anything wet under her keel.  (You should be running into that date and all its happenings in this log book.)

The neatness of copy logs comes from being able to see what you'll have to write and then spacing it out neatly.  By one 'writer' who is practiced at it, preferably on a day when the seas are not rough.

The disorderliness comes from never knowing what you'll need room to write next, and multiple officers taking turns writing it immediately, regardless of the state of the sea.  Life happening in real time. 8) 
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 17:24:39
On the end leaves of the previous log ending mid July 1922 there was a reference to something having been lost. Unfortunately the scan only picked up half the page. The new log then started half way through July 1922 which made me think they might be discontinuous. The log keeper is still the same though.

We shall soon see.



 

Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 06 April 2012, 18:12:17
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 17:24:39
On the end leaves of the previous log ending mid July 1922 there was a reference to something having been lost. Unfortunately the scan only picked up half the page. The new log then started half way through July 1922 which made me think they might be discontinuous. The log keeper is still the same though.

We shall soon see.

I played around with the URLs ;)
(It is at the beginning of the new log rather than at the end of the old. )

I think it says "Ship stranded and lost"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_1.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 18:51:17
Quote from: randi_2 on 06 April 2012, 18:12:17

I played around with the URLs ;)
(It is at the beginning of the new log rather than at the end of the old. )

I think it says "Ship stranded and lost"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_1.jpg

I've been waiting for a chance to "attempt a Janet":
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 06 April 2012, 20:21:11
Quote from: PeteB9 on 06 April 2012, 17:24:39
...The new log then started half way through July 1922 which made me think they might be discontinuous. The log keeper is still the same though.

This is completely normal in the original logs.  They always start on the first day of the new voyage, which has only a 3% chance of being on the 1st of the month.  It's the monthly copies that are diligent about always going from the 1st to the last, even when the voyage ends/begins with new captain and crew midway through.

The other thing is, we've figured out how to CHEAT when it comes to reading future log pages.  It works only on the jpeg urls, never the editing links.  And within the same logbook.  All jpeg urls end xxx_0.jpg or xxx_1.jpg - the left and right sides of the open-book scan.  The 'xxx' is always a consecutive page numbering starting with '001'.  If you manually change it up and down the count, you can jump to future/past pages.  Extremely useful if your log keeper has forgotten to note the ship's location.

I took your sample page for the start of this book, and scaled up to find this.  You are going to need to enlarge it to read the crowded handwriting, but the very last words in the notes are "Ship Abandoned."  The next page contains only the initials/signatures of the captain and navigating officer, I think verifying the accuracy of the the log.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0019_0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0019_1.jpg

The 2 officers most responsible for setting her course must have been feeling ill, and ready to die of shame and hurt.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 07 April 2012, 02:52:53
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 18:51:17
Quote from: randi_2 on 06 April 2012, 18:12:17

I played around with the URLs ;)
(It is at the beginning of the new log rather than at the end of the old. )

I think it says "Ship stranded and lost"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_1.jpg

I've been waiting for a chance to "attempt a Janet":

WOW - I can't even see the join!
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 05:55:40
Quote from: randi_2 on 07 April 2012, 02:52:53
Quote from: Bunting Tosser on 06 April 2012, 18:51:17
Quote from: randi_2 on 06 April 2012, 18:12:17

I played around with the URLs ;)
(It is at the beginning of the new log rather than at the end of the old. )

I think it says "Ship stranded and lost"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_0.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0001_1.jpg

I've been waiting for a chance to "attempt a Janet":



WOW - I can't even see the join!

Yes - nicely done.

I must look up how to do that.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Kathy on 07 April 2012, 08:42:09
From the log of Valerian:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-88506/0030_1.jpg

(please see the noon entry)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Dean on 07 April 2012, 09:03:24
WAY Cool!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 12:17:03
4th August 1922 1100h

Raleigh delivers a letter to Lobster Cove Lighthouse!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0017_0.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 12:29:39
5th August 1922

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0017_1.jpg

1900 Landed Leuie-ing Party

Anyone able to turn that into something sensible?
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Helen J on 07 April 2012, 13:17:04
Nope!  It does look like Leuie-ing Party, and that makes no sense at all.  The only thing I wonder is whether it's someone who can't spell 'lieu' ie' it's a party being sent in lieu of something?  But that's a very long shot, and coming out of imagination rather than any kind of knowledge!
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 14:31:16
Diary of a shipwreck  8th Aug 1922

0910 Hoisted boats, furled Q.D. awning, prepared for sea.

0945 Hands Employed :- T. Classes at instructions, Control parties at drill, painting and refitting as req'te

1029 Weighed & proceded 12 kts Co. as req'te

1052 Rounded Robinson Island

1112 Keppel Is Lt 075 deg - 1.1m. Shaped Co 315

1142 a/c 025 deg

11.44 Rich Pt Lt 114 deg - 1.9m

1220 Twin Is. 038 deg

1457 Iceberg 001 deg

1510 Sighted Land on port bow

1524 a/c 360 deg. Ran into fog. Commenced sounding

1537 Land ahead & on port bow. Rd to 8 kts

1538 Sighted breakers on Star bow. Full speed astern. Hard a starboard. Collision stations

1539 Grounded

1540 Stopped engines. Ship bumping heavily

1541 Hard a port Ship's stern swinging to E. ward Full astern starboard

1543 Stop Star. Full ahead port. Engines as req'te to prevent stern swinging on rocks

1549 Finally stopped engines. Position 262 o - 4.8 cables from Amour Pt Lt. Heading 292o. Hard aground on star bilge and bumping heavily

1607 Let go Port anch. Cutter & crew washed ashore on rocks

1615 Two lines ashore by Coston gun. Commenced abandoning ship by lines & Carley Floats

2000 Ship abandoned

Log page in Janet J's post above

I was puzzled initially by the  1538 entry -  hard a starboard

Looking at the situation on G Maps

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=forteau+canada&hl=en&ll=51.46005,-56.874332&spn=0.0369,0.061712&sll=50.570591,-57.325287&sspn=0.300914,0.493698&t=h&hnear=Forteau,+Division+No.+10,+Newfoundland+and+Labrador,+Canada&z=14

Starboard helm is turning into the rocks. With 100% hindsight the safer course is hard a port.

I think though the log is talking helm orders rather than courses which in 1922 had the opposite sense to that of today

http://www.rnsubs.co.uk/Community/Forum/index.php?topic=2805.0

What does the panel think?
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 07 April 2012, 14:43:17
Quote from: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 14:31:16
Diary of a shipwreck  8th Aug 1922

0910 Hoisted boats, furled Q.D. awning, prepared for sea.

0945 Hands Employed :- T. Classes at instructions, Control parties at drill, painting and refitting as req'te

1029 Weighed & proceded 12 kts Co. as req'te

1052 Rounded Robinson Island

1112 Keppel Is Lt 075 deg - 1.1m. Shaped Co 315

1142 a/c 025 deg

11.44 Rich Pt Lt 114 deg - 1.9m

1220 Twin Is. 038 deg

1457 Iceberg 001 deg

1510 Sighted Land on port bow

1524 a/c 360 deg. Ran into fog. Commenced sounding

1537 Land ahead & on port bow. Rd to 8 kts

1538 Sighted breakers on Star bow. Full speed astern. Hard a starboard. Collision stations

1539 Grounded

1540 Stopped engines. Ship bumping heavily

1541 Hard a port Ship's stern swinging to E. ward Full astern starboard

1543 Stop Star. Full ahead port. Engines as req'te to prevent stern swinging on rocks

1549 Finally stopped engines. Position 262 o - 4.8 cables from Amour Pt Lt. Heading 292o. Hard aground on star bilge and bumping heavily

1607 Let go Port anch. Cutter & crew washed ashore on rocks

1615 Two lines ashore by Coston gun. Commenced abandoning ship by lines & Carley Floats

2000 Ship abandoned

Log page in Janet J's post above

I was puzzled initially by the  1538 entry -  hard a starboard

Looking at the situation on G Maps

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=forteau+canada&hl=en&ll=51.46005,-56.874332&spn=0.0369,0.061712&sll=50.570591,-57.325287&sspn=0.300914,0.493698&t=h&hnear=Forteau,+Division+No.+10,+Newfoundland+and+Labrador,+Canada&z=14

Starboard helm is turning into the rocks. With 100% hindsight the safer course is hard a port.

I think though the log is talking helm orders rather than courses which in 1922 had the opposite sense to that of today

http://www.rnsubs.co.uk/Community/Forum/index.php?topic=2805.0

What does the panel think?
I know nothing about sailing, but something came up in a book where they were 'in reverse' and had to reverse starboard and port commands. How much the author knew and how much that relates to here I have no idea ???
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 15:05:44
Originally Boats/ ships were controled with a steering oar or tiller and in order to move the boats head to port the rudder had to be moved to port. This was done by moving the tiller to starboard (tiller is in front of the pivot, the rudder is behind it). Therefor the order hard a starboard actually steered the ship to port. When ships got wheel steering controls, to move the ships rudder and head to port you turned the wheel to port (just like a car) but the helm order would still be 'hard a starboard' as if you had an imaginary tiller. It looks like in 1931 they changed it so that the order to move the rudder and Ships head to port became 'hard a port'.

I'm not suggesting that the Raleighs helmsman became confused I'm just wondering if the log entry 'hard a starboard' refers to the ships heading or to the helm orders that were given.

On thinking about it I suspect it's the latter.   
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 07 April 2012, 15:25:15
Quote from: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 12:29:39
5th August 1922

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0017_1.jpg

1900 Landed Leuie-ing Party

Anyone able to turn that into something sensible?

Seine-ing party?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seine

I have seen seining parties before and maybe he was confused on the spelling.

I know that it looks exactly like the 'L' just before it ;), but it also locks exactly like the 'S' in Speed on the previous page at 1754 https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0017_0.jpg ;D
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 07 April 2012, 15:27:02
Quote from: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 15:05:44
Originally Boats/ ships were controled with a steering oar or tiller and in order to move the boats head to port the rudder had to be moved to port. This was done by moving the tiller to starboard (tiller is in front of the pivot, the rudder is behind it). Therefor the order hard a starboard actually steered the ship to port. When ships got wheel steering controls, to move the ships rudder and head to port you turned the wheel to port (just like a car) but the helm order would still be 'hard a starboard' as if you had an imaginary tiller. It looks like in 1931 they changed it so that the order to move the rudder and Ships head to port became 'hard a port'.

I'm not suggesting that the Raleighs helmsman became confused I'm just wondering if the log entry 'hard a starboard' refers to the ships heading or to the helm orders that were given.

On thinking about it I suspect it's the latter.

I think I actually understand that  :o  -  at least the general idea ;D
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 17:03:45
Quote from: randi_2 on 07 April 2012, 15:25:15
Quote from: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 12:29:39
5th August 1922

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0017_1.jpg

1900 Landed Leuie-ing Party

Anyone able to turn that into something sensible?

Seine-ing party?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seine

I have seen seining parties before and maybe he was confused on the spelling.

I know that it looks exactly like the 'L' just before it ;), but it also locks exactly like the 'S' in Speed on the previous page at 1754 https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82272/0017_0.jpg ;D

I think you're probably right that it's an S rather than an L. The second letter is definately e but the i appears to be the 4th letter not the 3rd.

I dunno - pity because this guys writing has been pretty good all through the voyage and then 3 days from the end he writes something illegible :(
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 07 April 2012, 17:11:22
Look at 'cleaning' at 0930 - the dot is over the second half of the n (also making + mending) ;)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Bunting Tosser on 07 April 2012, 17:27:51
Quote from: PeteB9 on 07 April 2012, 15:05:44
Originally Boats/ ships were controled with a steering oar or tiller and in order to move the boats head to port the rudder had to be moved to port. This was done by moving the tiller to starboard (tiller is in front of the pivot, the rudder is behind it). Therefor the order hard a starboard actually steered the ship to port. When ships got wheel steering controls, to move the ships rudder and head to port you turned the wheel to port (just like a car) but the helm order would still be 'hard a starboard' as if you had an imaginary tiller. It looks like in 1931 they changed it so that the order to move the rudder and Ships head to port became 'hard a port'.

I'm not suggesting that the Raleighs helmsman became confused I'm just wondering if the log entry 'hard a starboard' refers to the ships heading or to the helm orders that were given.

On thinking about it I suspect it's the latter.
PeteB9,
Yep, that'll be it. There's additional/confirming info here:
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=1865.msg23255#msg23255
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 07 April 2012, 18:20:31
That actually sounds like parallel parking a car.  The direction to turn the wheel when backing up in a curved path is anti-logic.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Dean on 07 April 2012, 19:42:48
21 January 1922 - San Francisco Harbor - HMS Raleigh passes USS Arizona, Mississippi, and Nevada. Is saluted and returns salutes from Arizona.

       Arizona and Nevada are later sunk in the battle of Pearl Harbor. :(
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: PeteB9 on 08 April 2012, 09:55:52
An account of the loss of Raleigh and the days after by one of the ships Midshipmen.

P165 - P173

http://www.naval-review.co.uk/issues/1982-3.pdf

Some interesting stuff.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 08 April 2012, 10:30:27
SUPER!

Quote
Adams took the log and I folded up the chart, tucking it well away.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 09 April 2012, 08:50:23
16 Feb 1922 - Balboa, Panama

Saluted :- 1028 President of Panama Republic 21 guns : 1055 U.S. Minister to Panama 15 guns : 1115 French Charge d'Affairs 13 guns: 1145 U.S. General in Command 13 guns: 1155 Governor of Canal Zone 17 guns.

1630 Rigged Q Deck for Admiral's Party.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0111_1.jpg


17 Feb 1922 - Balboa, Panama
1500 - 1800 "At Home" held on board.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Helen J on 09 April 2012, 09:13:47
That is a lot of saluting!  I think the French one is 'Charge' with an acute over the 'e' - can't find out how to do that here! 

I wonder whether there was some handbook to lay down how many guns you used for all these different people?  It all seems very carefully graduated.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 09 April 2012, 09:22:48
Yes the French is 'Charge' with an acute over the 'e' - it just doesn't display correctly in the forum.

I just went back and checked the transcription (which I had copied here) and there it shows up correctly ;) - Whew! ;D

Somewhere here in the forum there is a link to saluting instructions.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 09 April 2012, 11:16:21
Yep!  The King's Regulations, what else? ;D

http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=2126.msg28672#msg28672
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=225.msg1604#msg1604

The custom goes back to at least the 1600s.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 09 April 2012, 11:20:13
Finally I get to go through the Panama Canal!
https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0112_1.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Helen J on 15 April 2012, 15:32:48
Are you missing some of your hands?  An entry from Wisteria's log would suggest it's worth checking ....

28th February 1922, 1am:
Patrol returned to ship with 3 prisoners belonging to HMS Raleigh.  Escort from Raleigh came on board.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-93265/0032_1.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 15 April 2012, 16:02:30
I didn't do that day, but here it is: https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0117_1.jpg
0020 Landed Escort
0110 Escort returned with 3 offenders.

Wisteria was not mentioned on that page nor on the 25th-27th, but she is mentioned on 1 March (https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-82271/0118_0.jpg) outward bound for West Indies.

Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Helen J on 15 April 2012, 16:41:24
It's especially satisfying somehow when the logs match up and you can see something happening from both 'sides'.

I'm glad to see that Raleigh also marked Princess Mary's wedding day in the appropriate fashion ....
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Helen J on 22 April 2012, 13:41:24
In late September, working parties from Wisteria are busy salving various boats (whalers and so on) from Raleigh.  I suppose they tried to re-use everything which was still OK.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-93269/0016_1.jpg

Then on October 4th they record:
HMS Raleigh abandoned.
1 PO and 11 hands joined for passage (ex Raleigh)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-93270/0005_0.jpg
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Malc on 15 September 2013, 12:51:39
re PeteB9 of April 06, 2012, 12:45:44 pm. stated  30th May 1922 We're in Washington DC on a 'wave the flag at the Americans' tour and the log records a photo being taken of the ships company and officers.
I wonder if that photo still exists? Be nice to find it.

Actually Yes it exists, in fact i have 2 original photos, both have within photo ?Officers and crew of H.M.S RALEIGH  at Wash(ington) D.C. U.S.A.  MAY 1922? & both taken by Fletcher of 702 Ninth St N.W  Washington, numbered 1 & 2. but as both  rolled up and at about 60 inches x 15 inches each and both with broken damaged ends and some spitting/tears are at present, looks too difficult to open up & photograph either safely (http://forum.oldweather.org/Smileys/default/cry.gif), both show the crew and officers on the dock & on the ship. They came with 2 tiny contemporary newspaper reports, one  a report of the ?British Cruiser aground, little hope of saving her? the other of the funeral and  death of  John William Edward Sutton, HMS Mackay of Norwich who died falling out of a mail train  from Norwich to  London.
It mentions at base of Funeral report,  messages from Officers & crew of  both HMS Mackay &  HMS Raleigh. Unfortunately not dated, but looks like he left  HMS Rayleigh for HMS Mackay, and died sometime after  Raleigh was lost?
Found this site as at present I am trying to find out info about  John William Edward Sutton, but seems I will have to visit Norwich. 
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Randi on 15 September 2013, 13:04:36
Keep an eye on ROYAL NAVY LOG BOOKS - THE SHIP HISTORIES (http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-LogBooksWW1.htm). The transcribed log of HMS Raleigh is not available yet, but it will be.
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 15 September 2013, 13:46:06
And there are articles on her last visit here in the Library of Congress.
The Washington herald., May 30, 1922, Page 2, Image 2 (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045433/1922-05-30/ed-1/seq-2/)
It is a short lead-in on page 1 continued on page2 at length with pictures.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mxKQK9c_f0Y/UjX1_er2FgI/AAAAAAAAB38/j57cAYeV3h0/w681-h499-no/Raleigh+The+Washington+herald%252C+May+30%252C+1922.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XpL5mjOnFJc/UjX1_Zxme-I/AAAAAAAAB4A/NlkVmZPCFvg/w559-h532-no/Raleigh+The+Washington+herald%252C+May+30%252C+1922+a.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mlyDp7g0EiY/UjX1_fTTQLI/AAAAAAAAB4Y/TMweLHu9vdI/w559-h532-no/Raleigh+The+Washington+herald%252C+May+30%252C+1922+b.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: Janet Jaguar on 15 September 2013, 13:51:22
Also pic of the grounding later that year, from the Amarillo Daily News, Texas.
Amarillo daily news. (Amarillo, Tex.), September 10, 1922, Daily News Magazine Section, Page PAGE FOUR (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85042551/1922-09-10/ed-1/seq-22/) gives an interesting pictoral glance of world news.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4EVWMZpXDKE/UjX2ABeyT2I/AAAAAAAAB4Q/pGbZR0VVog4/w623-h532-no/Raleigh+grounded+Amarillo+daily+news%252C+September+10%252C+1922.GIF)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HQYC_IWV6h8/UjX7uFY1CkI/AAAAAAAAB5c/MECbU-bTQa4/w513-h489-no/Raleigh+grounded+Amarillo+daily+news%252C+September+10%252C+1922+a.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Raleigh
Post by: AvastMH on 15 September 2013, 15:16:09
Jeepers - those waves look pretty unforgiving! :o :o