Old Weather Forum
Library => The voyages, the work, the people, the places => Topic started by: navalhistory on 30 October 2010, 12:23:24
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Quote - THE SPANISH INFLUENZA. The pandemic lasted from
approximately July 1918 to April 1919 with a major peak in the UK
between September 1918 and January 1919. It can be assumed that the vast
majority of deaths from illness in these periods (in the Royal Navy)
were due to the Spanish flu.
This might help explain any increases in death from illnesses in this period.
Gordon
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It may have arrived slightly early on HMS Christopher! 18 Jun
18 - 28 ratings discharged sick to HMS Apollo at Plymouth. That's
about 40% of her crew. Entry in the afternoon reads "Hands
employed disinfecting ship".
Will have to see what unfolds over the next few days.
Regards
Haywain
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Haywain,
Don't know the timescale in the UK, but in the US it
started with a lot of mildish cases, with no deaths. Then when they
started, sky-rocketed - maybe 100 or more US Navy men eventually dying
each day.
You can follow the USN story starting at http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyUS-CasualtiesChrono1918-02Feb.htm
Gordon
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How about putting in a request to the tech team that "sick list " be
added to the default settings?I know that some of us are already
plugging in the numbers-[see "Numbers on sick list" thread started by
KennyMac825] I suppose we're too far into the project to make it a
required field.Those numbers are so religiously logged-what a treasure
trove of data for any one interested in patterns of disease
migration!
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chickeneyed
That's a good idea. With our present day concerns about pandemics, there could be some useful data here for epidemiologists.
Gordon
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A Sick List record is a great idea, I think.
I am curious about this, too. Between September and November 1918, two men died of pneumonia on Achilles.
The first one was on a trip from New York to Liverpool, and when the
ship moored, some three dozen and more ratings were discharged to
hospitals within the first couple days. Promptly after, all hands spent a
few days disinfecting and scrubbing down all decks (whether as standard
procedure or from threat of disease).
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Strange there has been mention of the Spanish Flu in other threads.
Due to the pepper pot approach to the logs on HMS Christopher, further to my post below, I have just returned to June 1918.
On
17 Jun 18 at 6.00 pm, entry reads "Hands put into two watches on
account of epidemic of influenza". For the first time ever, there
is an entry in the sick list box of "19", that's over 25% of the crew.
On
19 Jun 18, the Fleet Surgeon visits the ship twice, the Captain, Gunner
and a midshipman are discharged to hospital and Lieut English RN takes
over command.
On 20 Jun 18, there is obviously someone with a
sense of humour who decides the crew need some fresh air to get away
from all those bugs. Leaving one officer, 1 PO and 4 Hands onboard
the rest go off on a route march! Guess what the 4 hands are
doing? Yes - Painting!
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And swearing up a storm, I'll wager.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Talking of high numbers on the sick list I got to 77 once but my
record is 98. I think that was on the Hood, during its world cruise.
That was during 1923/24 so maybe an outbreak of something else.
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Hello
The deaths on HOOD during this period were 1). a
hemorage of the pancreas; 2). Malaria, and 3). two pneumonia
cases.
One might suspect if most of the illness fell around the malaria death (January 1924), this would be the contagion.
All best and keep up the good work!!
don
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That might well explain it. I seem to recall it was only a momentary
blip. I don't recall any deaths or mention of illness specifically but I
could have missed those pages with others around.
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Ahh, now I understand the large outbreak of sickies on Amethyst
after docking in Gibraltar in mid-1918. I thought they'd just had a
really good party after several years patrolling the
Brazillian/Argentine coast!
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Talking
of high numbers on the sick list I got to 77 once but my record is 98. I
think that was on the Hood, during its world cruise. That was during
1923/24 so maybe an outbreak of something else.
Did
that sick-list peak happen to coincide with shore leave after a
prolonged period at sea? If so, it is likely to be a high proportion of
STI as Jolly Jack has a well-founded rep!
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Gixernutter, kin47 had looked up the problems on Hood during this bout:
"The
deaths on HOOD during this period were 1). a hemorage of the
pancreas; 2). Malaria, and 3). two pneumonia cases. One
might suspect if most of the illness fell around the malaria death
(January 1924), this would be the contagion."
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Re the Route march as a cure for sickness I found the same thing.
In
1916 HMS Clio picked up 22 sick on a three day journey from Bombay to
Karachi. When they got to Karachi they were on a two hour route march
within three hours of anchoring.
Numbers dropped back over the next 3 days.
Happy New Year to all
K
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It's certainly one way to get everyone out while they scrub the ship clean, but it must have seemed like punishment!
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HMS Torch has contracted the Spanish flu on 23rd Oct. 1918
(http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM%2053-63333/ADM%2053-63333-029_1.jpg).
We are at Edinburgh, Granton Roads harbor, and have spent the last
couple of weeks just doing exercises in the Firth of Forth, coming home
every night. In the last 3 days we went from 0 on the sick list
consistently to first 3 then 11 then 18 plus another 9 in Hospital [the
last 7 went to Hospital Ship Berbice, not to anything on shore.]
The
other indicators are, after putting that many on sick list, the aired
the bedding, aired the duffel coats, downed the bedding, and went on a
route march. The RN really believes in getting their sailors out
of contaminated ships and out into fresh air, which isn't bad reasoning.
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HMS Avoca has a lot of flu right now
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-34573/ADM53-34573-008_0.jpg
On 3rd November Avoca was at sea with 2 on the sick list. Subsequent days are as follows:
4th - Sea - 4
5th - Sea - 7
6th - arrived in New York - 17
7th - NY - 35
8th - NY - 72
9th - put to sea - 118
10th (above) - at sea - 135
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And that is exactly how it became a world wide epidemic.
Put into New York just long enough to infect them!!!
K
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It carried on as follows all at sea:
11th - 140
12th - 130
13th - 121
14th - 102
15th - 87
And not a single mention in the log book otherwise. Maybe the 3 men left standing were just too busy!
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The flu seems to have also reached HMS Challenger at "Port Amelia"
East Africa. The crew received something (I could not read it). I
suppose that it is some sort of medication because the number on sick
list dropped.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-37522/ADM53-37522-0011_0.jpg
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The
flu seems to have also reached HMS Challenger at "Port Amelia" East
Africa. The crew received something (I could not read it). I suppose
that it is some sort of medication because the number on sick list did
not increase.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-37522/ADM53-37522-0011_0.jpg
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h.kohler,
I tried to find some online source that knows what
drugs they tried - there aren't any, because they all have to say that
every drug they tried did not work.
Just use the 'illegible' marks: "C~to~~t~"
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Thanks Janet that's exactly what I did write.
10 Days after
that 8 ratings were discharged to Hospital in Zanzibar, therefore the
epidemic is not over for "Challenger" but the Number on Sick list stayed
the same: Between 10 and 13 including those in hospital.
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They are doing a much better job of controlling its spread than
Torch did, in dock at Edinburgh. When they topped off at 30 sick
onboard and another 31 sent to Hospital over the previous 3 days, they
destroyed all bedding and sent the entire ship's company off on extended
3 week leave.
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Re the thing(s) handed to the men, I suspect that it reads
"certificates" and has no relevance to the flu, but I may be wrong.
K
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I also read it as "certificates", prior to reading Tegwen's post.
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Tegwen, jennfurr,
I think you both may be right. Another case where you have to think of the correct content to decifer the scribble. :P
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Thanks Tegwen and Jennfur for your perfect reading.
Maybe my mind is too clouded by the influenza. :P
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The illness outbreak from september I mentioned was just a forerunner of what would happen in december:
By
the end of november 9 men where on sick list and one was sent to
hospital. On the 3rd of december 21 are sick, 4th: 29, 5th: 39, 6th: 56,
7th: 46 where discharged to hospital, 8th 13 to hospital and 25
on sick list. From there on the number of sick crew diminished but the
13th, 15th and 16th funeral parties where landed. Only Staff Surgeon
Langford was mentioned in the log. Six more men died. Their names are to
be found at http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1918postArmistice.htm
The ship was then disinfected but no route march ordered, only a lot of physical drill.
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How
about putting in a request to the tech team that "sick list " be added
to the default settings?I know that some of us are already plugging in
the numbers-[see "Numbers on sick list" thread started by KennyMac825] I
suppose we're too far into the project to make it a required
field.Those numbers are so religiously logged-what a treasure trove of
data for any one interested in patterns of disease migration!
Excellent
idea. I never though about it since it wasn't in the tutorial, but I
will start doing it now. Do you use Events / Other? We might as well use
the same format.
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I've been doing it for some time, unless it is blank. I'm not
sure what it does for the spread of disease, since there is no place to
say if they are there for illness or injury - unless of course it's
something like the Spanish with excessively large, tracable
numbers. I'm quite sure it says a lot, though, about the
well-being of the ship and crew and their ability to respond properly to
anything.
I tend to use Events/Other. At least one member
said he thought it should be Events/Person. But I think the
historians go to those expecting a specific name. Your choice.
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Inspired by this thread, I've dug out the records we've accumulated
of the numbers on the sick list and made a blog post
(http://blogs.zooniverse.org/oldweather/2011/01/hms-africa-in-action-against-orthomyxoviridae/).
Generally in such posts I try and credit the people who have done most
of the work entering the data mentioned, but for technical reasons I
can't tell who's been inputting sick-list counts so I wasn't able to do
so. You know who you are, well done to all concerned.
I see the
argument for adding this to the default list of data collected, but I'm a
little reluctant because I don't know what we'd actually do with it.
It's obviously interesting, but at the moment we've nobody with the
expertise to say that these particular records will generate new
publishable research. I'm asking around, and there are a couple of
people who might be interested in leading the analysis of this sort of
data, but we've no such people on board at the moment.
Of course,
just because the science team can't get involved in sickness data at
the moment doesn't mean we can't collect and analyse it. Any volunteers?
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Great Blog Philip. Really interesting. I certainly dont have the
expertise or time to work on the data, but I will record sick list
numbers from now on.
K
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I can only second Tegwen. Very interesting and useful data for epidemiologists.
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Inspired
by this thread, I've dug out the records we've accumulated of the
numbers on the sick list and made a blog post
(http://blogs.zooniverse.org/oldweather/2011/01/hms-africa-in-action-against-orthomyxoviridae/).
Generally in such posts I try and credit the people who have done most
of the work entering the data mentioned, but for technical reasons I
can't tell who's been inputting sick-list counts so I wasn't able to do
so. You know who you are, well done to all concerned.
...
Of
course, just because the science team can't get involved in sickness
data at the moment doesn't mean we can't collect and analyse it. Any
volunteers?
Clearly,
yes! A bunch of us recognized interesting data here. It
adds another layer to the richness of this project. :)
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Just a point on format of the record.
I guess it should be in
event other. Is it best to put for example "Number on sick list = X" or
is there another format that might help?
This format is relatively
simple to operate as the wording Number on etc jumps into the field
after the first N so it is just necessary to enter the X and hit OK
K
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On a point of order I have never managed to get the blog to load.
I
use other and just write Sick List "n", including 0 or nil but not
recording when the box is blank, as of course there may have been a sick
list, but not recorded.
Anecdotally, the great majority of reports are in the 2-5 range.
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I've been recording as 'sick list n' in Event/other for quite a
while. But I've done quite a bit of work on Challenger and my first logs
1915- all contained a box for 'sick list'. Now I've time travelled back
to 1914 and the layout of the log pages is slightly different - no sick
list for one. Before you decide on including this number as a
general request I think you need to have a look at the log format
because it could be that the number was not recorded before WW1.
Usually Challenger seems to have few on the list but every so often it
jumped for a couple of days, usually when in port. I wonder if it was
either dysentery or over-indulgence but there is no way of getting
diagnoses unless the medical records exist somewhere.
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Hi Studentforever
There is a "Sick List" box in the 1914 log. It is located in the second row (first box) where is also written the position.
Regards
H.
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Don't know if this is the right place to post this:
HMS Constance in Bermuda, 1921, discharges 13 Ratings to the hospital, without saying why.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM%2053-74049/ADM%2053-74049-076_0.jpg
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Could that have been some kind of accident? It's odd that
right before that second note they claimed only 2 on the sick list.
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This has nothing to do with the flu, but on the Foxglove, the same
two ratings keep going back and forth between the hospital and the ship -
K59553 & J36127 - I have looked around the net for info on these
ratings, but have found nothing. Anyone have any info on crews for
1923? I would at least like know their names.
yours -
Kathy
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Janet Jaguar - I wondered the same thing, but this entry is my first log page for that ship.
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Kin47: How did you find the information as to the diagnoses of the folks on the sick list?
Carolyn
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http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33668/ADM53-33668-010_1.jpg
1300
Thomas Drinkwater. Male 31 AB RFR British 27 Peters Lane London. Died
of Influenza & Pneumonia in Kingston Avenue Hospital Brooklyn.
I
have been jumping around a lot as I reach the end of HMS Andes but I
think this is the first Influenza death noted for this ship.
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http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33668/ADM53-33668-011_1.jpg
1300
William B Parr, Male 20 Scullion MMR British. 48 Rector Rd Liverpool.
Influenza & Pneumonia Died Wollard Parker Hospital New York
What
looks odd to me also is that 6 Cooks and 2 Bakers appear to join the
ship in 3 separate notes around mid-day. Have I got that right?
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A surgeon from Toledo came on board right before then, that morning,
"to attend case". It's possible he put the entire kitchen crew
into quarantine away from the ship's food to be sure they hadn't caught
the flu from their scullion and were about to give it 100% spread
throughout the crew through the cooking process.
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I think that the first part reads "Surgeon Watts RN to the SS Iron of Toledo to attend case".
I cant make the next two lines out at all, but the 6 cooks in 2 separate groups sounds odd.
Hope this helps
K
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It was nice to read in the blog about our efforts to record influenza deaths. It was a very interesting read, thanks!
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Spanish Influenza on the HMS Kildonan Castle, 9 April, 1918? -
16 on the sick list:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-45681/ADM%2053-45681-007_1.jpg
16 were also on the sick list the day before.
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I have a bad feeling about this.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-53224/ADM%2053-53224-005_1.jpg
HMS Odin on the 5th of October 1918 is in the Red Sea
At 06.30 she has the following entry.
"Stopped. Boat left ship with surgeon to attend sick rating at light house"
and at 08.25. "Boat returned with sick rating."
Currently the number on the sick list is 3. Any bets on what it will be in a weeks time?
Of course it could be nothing to do with the flu, but I want to tell them that it is not a good idea to bring him aboard.
K
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Well it appears as if it wasnt the chap from the light house that
bought the flu to the Odin, but sure enough they got it anyway by the
end of the month.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-53224/ADM%2053-53224-016_1.jpg
They
docked in Aden on the 13th and by the 27th of October they had 26 on
the sick list and the following were entered in the log on that day. .
"All
confidential signal books returned to paymaster. All signal ratings and
1 WT rating on sick list." and "Discharged 18 ratings to hospital"
By
the 7th of November the number on sick list had risen to 68, over half
the crew. It stayed at that level until the 13th. There has so far been
only one funeral party and it seems that was not for an Odin crew
member.
Incidentally they didnt receive news of the cessation of
hostilities until 7.50pm on the 11th. No further celebration that day,
but on the 14th, a Thursday they dresses ship & fired 31 guns.
K
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Inspired
by this thread, I've dug out the records we've accumulated of the
numbers on the sick list and made a blog post
(http://blogs.zooniverse.org/oldweather/2011/01/hms-africa-in-action-against-orthomyxoviridae/).
Generally in such posts I try and credit the people who have done most
of the work entering the data mentioned, but for technical reasons I
can't tell who's been inputting sick-list counts so I wasn't able to do
so. You know who you are, well done to all concerned.
I see the
argument for adding this to the default list of data collected, but I'm a
little reluctant because I don't know what we'd actually do with it.
It's obviously interesting, but at the moment we've nobody with the
expertise to say that these particular records will generate new
publishable research. I'm asking around, and there are a couple of
people who might be interested in leading the analysis of this sort of
data, but we've no such people on board at the moment.
Of course,
just because the science team can't get involved in sickness data at
the moment doesn't mean we can't collect and analyse it. Any volunteers?
Hello again-
I've
been gone from the project for a while as I originally got involved as
an extra credit project, long since completed, with my granddaughter.
Curiosity
as to the evolution of the project led me to check back in today, and
I'm pleased to find that interest in the potential value of the sick
list statistics remains high.While I have no further interest in log
transcription, I would very willingly volunteer to transcribe/catalogue
the sick lists (only) if some means can be contrived to provide me
with ALL the Ships logs.
I continue to believe (see my previous post
of Nov. 01) that the potential scientific value of those numbers may
prove to be at least equal to that of the weather data
that remains the focus of the current project.
Why not gather up the data now and and THEN look around for someone in epidemiology who might be equipped to use/interpret it?
I
don't look in very often, so if I can be of any use in this capacity,
please contact me directly via the E-mail address I supplied when I
registered.
Your Far-Flung Correspondent,
Chickeneyed
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Hmm, sorry if this is a stupid or disrespectful question, but while I
can see why these kind of statistics are interesting, what exactly IS
the value of this? I mean, people were contracting (and dying of)
influenza all over the place, and through recording sickness numbers whe
can conclude that they were doing the same on ships - not exactly a
surprising conclusion, is it? ??? Unless you wanted to somehow prove
that ships played a crucial part in spreading influenza, but I doubt
you'd be able to argue that successfully. So why bother recording the
figures? Or am I missing something here?
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Someone with a personal interest in it will see interesting patterns.
For
someone with no real interest in it, statistics - especially raw
numbers not yet reduced to being information - is always boring.
Do only what interests you on the subject.
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That really wasn't what I meant. Whether I'm bored or not is
irrelevant. Of course I find sickness numbers boring (partly because
I've never been on a ship where anything dramatic happened and I've
never seen a number above 12 or so) - but I'll be happy to transcribe
them anyway, if I can see the value that they will have for other
people, as I can with the equally boring weather information. But the
point is that at the moment I'm genuinely failing to see how sickness
numbers on ships could contribute anything to our knowledge about the
influenza epidemic or what interesting patterns a statistician might see
in them, and I'm hoping that somebody can tell me why I'm wrong and why
it is useful.
So I'm not being confrontational (sorry if it
sounded as though I was), I'd just like someone to explain to me how
exactly this information could be used, because right now I'm not really
getting it. ???
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I doubt that the Sick List will ever lead to a scholarly paper
because no one knows if the numbers represent illness or accident.
But
I spent 30-plus years as factory management, as quality control.
And the health of the people who are working together is integral to how
well everything is handled. As long as 0 to 3 people are in and
out everyday, the community's health is normal, and just seeing that
pattern will tell that to an historian on a reflexsive level, no charts
needed. If the run jumps from normal to moderately high (say 2 to
5), the whole community will be off balance but still functional.
If the run ever jumps from 2 to 12, just the fact that the number of ill
is multiplied by 6 will echo through the community worrying everyone - and
your work schedule, just having enough people standing to do every job,
will now be short handed. All the exercises run over the years
will have to be adjusted.
In the rare case where you have any
kind of epidemic producing very high numbers, the community is
crippled. Functional maybe, but none of the thousands of exercises
run by the crew over the years will have any worth at all - there just
are not enough hands on deck to do anything the same way.
For
anyone who has worked on a factory floor or in an office large enough to
be working as a complex team or in management of any size crew, the
importance of the crew's health will be an instinctive back brain
reflex. Most will never have the statistical training to draw
charts or explain it to someone else, but they will just "know" it is
important.
For anyone who has never experienced that level of
team work, it won't make instant internal sense and they may find it
boring. And the rule in this community is that (outside of weather data) if it doesn't interest you, you don't have to transcribe it.
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The data of Sick List we are transcribing might interest epidemiologists.
In
the particular case of the "Spanish Flu" it might also explain where
that virus came from and also the speed of its propagation around the
world.
What I found out in various internet pages is that the
"Spanish Flu" has only its name as origin and that it might come from
China.
There are also other times where the number of sick ratings was above average.
For
example: During the first months of the war H.M.S. Challenger had quite
a lot of Sick in their list. It was dysentery and as long as she was in
Duala that illness could not be cured from the ship. Only once that she
went to Simonstown was the problem solved and the number on Sick List
went back to normal.
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I think it's important to remember that there are many other factors
at work affecting crew health, not just the headline pandemic.
I have been following Amethyst and her sister-ship Sapphire through 1917-1918 and Sapphire seems to consistently has a sick list of 8-14, whereas Amethyst tends to be around 2-6. There should be no difference in health related to the ship design but Amethyst was off the coast of Brazil and only occasionally making port at Rio de Janeiro, while Sapphire
has been patrolling the Indian Ocean between Aden, Muscat, Karachi and
Mumbai, so was in a similar sub-tropical climate. Hygiene management and
diet on board might be a difference, but I'm guessing that the crew
were picking up Delhi-belly (with perhaps a side order of malaria or
dengue fever) during their port explorations. Any other thoughts?
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I agree that these differences are fascinating and there must be
potential for study there. Differences between ships, places, etc could
all show up with this type of data. That is why I think it is worth
transcribing it.
K
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It's a little early for the flu, but the number on the sick list for Merlin has been steadily increasing:
15 May 1914: 5
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-49084/ADM%2053-49084-103_1.jpg
16 May 1914: 9
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-49084/ADM%2053-49084-104_0.jpg
17 May 1914 - 11:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM_53-49084/ADM%2053-49084-104_1.jpg
By the 19th, the sick list has dropped back to 7.
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Don't know if it's already been mentioned, but Andes had 34 on the
sick list in June 1918. Sick list was fine until we visited the UK,
obviously someone went ashore and picked up the flu.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-014_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-014_1.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-015_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-015_1.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-016_0.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-016_1.jpg
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33664/ADM53-33664-017_1.jpg
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By mid october 1918 HMS Bristol was on her way form Bahia to Rio de
Janeiro when, after two days at sea she turned back to Bahia where she
stayed.
Every day there was the entry: Hands to Bathe. Also no
shore leave was given during that period. I think that it is because of
that that the flu did not affect the crew of HMS Bristol.
The number on Sick List never was more than 5
My curiosity was roused and I wanted to know why HMS Bristol had to return to Bahia and why she was not affected by the flu.
I found a very interesting article on the subject:
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/hcsm/v12n1/en_06.pdf
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we really should hire ourselves out as researchers - no topic to
unknown or dusty for us ;D - how on earth did you find that
article?
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Fascinating - a completely different slant on the pandemic.
-
we
really should hire ourselves out as researchers - no topic to unknown
or dusty for us ;D - how on earth did you find that article?
Well
I just googled "spanish flu brazil" and within 2 more clicks I had it.
And you are right research is our second job ;D
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http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33668/ADM53-33668-010_0.jpg
30 on the sick list - HMS Andes, October 1918, New York.
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Influenza death in New York:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33668/ADM53-33668-011_1.jpg
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49 on sick list:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33668/ADM53-33668-013_0.jpg
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Another influenza death:
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-33668/ADM53-33668-014_1.jpg
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HMS Astraea was hit by the Spanish flu as well, and not under the best of circumstances.
End of September 1918 it came out of dry dock in Simonstown, South Africa.
The next day the sick list started to increase and they got hit by force 10 winds.
How that must have felt?
The peak came a couple of days later with 84 on the sick list and a couple of burials.
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Some kind of influenza has reached HMS Bristol. I am not sure if it
was the Spanish Influenza because this illness was active between July
and November 1918 and from February until March 1919 (as far as I know).
No
men were on the Sick List, but within two weeks three men died of
pneumonia following influenza which were the symptoms on the Spanish
Influenza.
I have posted the pages mentioning them in the Burials at Sea topic.
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I suspect Challenger was afflicted by the flu in December 1918, in
East Africa. The number on the sick list, already high on 3rd
December at 21, went up to 29 on 4th, 39 on 5th (with 22 crossed out and
39 written in) and 56 on 6th December. On 7th 46 sick cases were
discharged to Hospital. On 8th there were 25 on the sick list, and
13 were discharged to hospital; on 9th 12 on the sick list and 4 to
hospital; on 10th 13 sick; on 11th apparently no one sick (though I
suspect from having done a few months logs now that they didn't always
record the number sick) and 1 to hospital.
Then the funerals
start; the first is of a Sub Lt from Styx; then funeral parties are
recorded on 13th, 15th (two on one day), and 17th. There are 9
deaths recorded on Naval History from the Challenger between 10th and
16th December, all from illness; none are recorded as dying on board so I
guess they were among those discharged to hospital. The logs
don't usually record whose funerals they are attending; the only person
named is Staff Surgeon Langford RN, who died on 15th December and was
buried on the same day.
on 16th December all bedding was aired; and
in the afternoon the ship was disinfected by the Port Medical
Authorities (they're in Dar-es-Salaam). On 17th December 8 are
recorded as sick, but after that nil (as I say I'm not convinced this is
accurate - it's a bit hit and miss). On 23rd December 5 ratings
join the ship from hospital, so presumably it was felt to be safe for
them to do so.
It must have been terrible, for both the men and
their families, to have survived the war, and then to die from the flu
before they could get home. May they all rest in peace.
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Given the small, tight community enclosed in a ship, it must have been terrifying.
I honor Challenger's losses that month:
SHORTMAN, James H, Ordinary Seaman, J 77887, illness
who died age 19 on 10 December 1918
STOTT, Fred, Ty/Engineer Sub Lieutenant, RNR, illness
who died age 32 on 10 December 1918
Son of Mr. and Mrs. William Jackson Stott, of Accrington, Lancs.
LOADER, Claude Alexander Edgar, Able Seaman, 238326, illness
who died age 28 on 12 December 1918
Son of Capt. A. E. Loader (A.S.C.) and Bridget Loader.
Served in the Somaliland Expedition, 1908-10, also in the Persian Gulf, 1909-14.
GUNNINGHAM, Frank, Stoker Petty Officer, 287128, illness
who died age 39 on 13 December 1918 (RFR/DEV/B/3049).
Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.
Son of Robert Gunningham;
husband of Henrietta Gunningham, of 15, Polden St., Bridgwater, Somerset.
Born at Spaxton, Somerset.
TUTT, William Courtney Edward, Petty Officer, 155763, illness
who died age 44 on 13 December 1918 (RFR/DEV/4219).
Son of the late Edward and Amy Tutt, of Ashford, Kent;
husband of Kate Tutt, of 49, Mawson Lane, Chiswick, London.
HILL, Hubert, Stoker 1c, K 44813, illness
who died age 29 on 14 December 1918
Son of William Godfrey Hill and Elizabeth Hill;
husband of Bessie Hill, of Church Cottage, Marldon, Paignton, Devon.
Born at Marldon, Devon.
MOORE, Frederick Francis , Painter 1c, M 2593, illness
who died age 35 on 14 December 1918
Husband of Elizabeth A. Moore, of Church Walk, West St., Ashburton, Devon.
LANGFORD, Martyn H, Surgeon Lieutenant Commander, illness
who died age 34 on 15 December 1918
MORRISON, Daniel Joseph, Shipwright 1c, 342391, illness
who died age 39 on 16 December 1918
Son of John and Elizabeth Morrison;
husband of Ethel Morrison, of 2A, Bridwell Rd., Weston Mill Estate, Devonport.
Born in Pembrokeshire.
May they Rest in Peace.
Information from Naval-History.net and CWGC.org
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Undoubtedly conditions aboard contributed to the spread of sickness
and its seriousness. Many ships were very damp and unhealthy, HMS Hood,
mentioned in an earlier post notoriously so and TB was commonplace
aboard her. The seaman's invariable habit of bunging up any opening that
might let fresh air onto the mess deckdidn't help either.
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I think that is supported by the fact that Odin had over half of the
crew (68 out of a nominal 134) on the sick list with flu at the peak of
the epidemic.
She was for most of the time in Aden with a nice
dry Northerly wind, regular airing of bedding etc. As far as I can
gather, both from her logs and the casualty lists, she lost no-one.
Clearly
the level of infection was incapacitating as she had to lock up her
code books, because no one with security clearance was fit enough to
work on them.
Frustratingly we didnt get the logs for the corresponding period for HMS Clio or Espiegle, so I cant compare them.
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There seems to be have been an outbreak (influenza is not specified)
on Arlanza after she left Newport, Wales, on July 6, 1918.
It
reached a peak on July 10
(http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-34147/ADM53-34147-008_0.jpg)
when seven officers and 44 men were listed as sick.
There was
another sudden, lethal outbreak beginning about September 20, 1918, as
reported here
(http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=671.msg10404#msg10404) by
farrelly.
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The last strike of the Spanish Influenza sent half HMS Severn's crew to Hospital (she has a crew of 140)
April 13 1919: 33, April 14: 22, April 15: 16, April 16: 10, April 17: none, April 18: 3
Only one death was reported but I could not transcribe the page because of a "Bug". I checked on Naval History and found:
27th April 1919
Able Seaman Lupton Richard J59349 died of illness. He is buried at the Malta (Capuccini) Naval Cementery
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h.k,
Here is the page that you were unable to transcribe. It
doesn't reveal much that you don't already know, apart from naming the
illness.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM%2053-59878/ADM%2053-59878-016_1.jpg
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Thanks a lot. :)
-
Just found the following in Science News:
1918 flu lurked for months before pandemic
The
1918 ?Spanish? flu may have had a spring preview in America.
Researchers from the U.S. military, the Department of Veterans Affairs
and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases examined
autopsy samples from 68 soldiers who died of pneumonia and influenza
symptoms between May and October of 1918. Analyses of samples from the
nine soldiers who died before the outbreak peaked in September and
October showed that the virus was circulating as long as four months
before the pandemic was recognized, the researchers report September 19
in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Those months
gave the virus time to become highly infectious in humans. ?Tina Hesman
Saey
If
you want the gory details see: Autopsy series of 68 cases dying before
and during the 1918 influenza pandemic peak at
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/09/12/1111179108
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The flu started on board HMS Orvieto June 13th 1918:
Number on Sick List - 13th: 65
14th: 82
15th: 78
16th: 56
17th: 44 Horace White A.S.B.A. died of pneumonia.
18th: 41
19th: 46
20th: 27
21th: 17
Than the number on sick list went back to normal.
Some
of the men must have already been contaminated by the virus when the
ship left Avonmouth a week earlier, and it must have been quite
difficult to run her with all those sick men at high sea as HMS Orvieto
was off the coast of West Africa with no possibility to sent them to a
hospital.
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I think HMS Astraea was mentioned earlier as having flu in the end
of September , this is 9th October 1918 and there were three funerals
and one corpse sent to the mortuary.
http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM53-34368/ADM53-34368-007_1.jpg
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http://oldweather.s3.amazonaws.com/ADM%2053-68179/ADM%2053-68179-009_0.jpg
Influenza got HMS Warrior now (this is probably not the first date, though).
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I have just picked up Warrior and have so far collected the information attached.
The numbers look pretty severe but can anyone clarify
I How many crew did Warrior carry
II Does the sick list number include those in hospital or does it just reflect those on board
lgb
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I have just picked up Warrior and have so far collected the information attached.
The numbers look pretty severe but can anyone clarify
I How many crew did Warrior carry
II Does the sick list number include those in hospital or does it just reflect those on board
lgb
I can't get amongst .php files.
As you mention the 'flu, it looks like the later HMS Warrior:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_%281917%29
That's all I know.
II.
I imagine it's just the sick still on board; others having been
"discharged to hospital" would not be part of the crew ??? would
they?
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I have just picked up Warrior and have so far collected the information attached.
The numbers look pretty severe but can anyone clarify
I How many crew did Warrior carry
II Does the sick list number include those in hospital or does it just reflect those on board
lgb
I can't get amongst .php files.
As you mention the 'flu, it looks like the later HMS Warrior:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_%281917%29
That's all I know.
II.
I imagine it's just the sick still on board; others having been
"discharged to hospital" would not be part of the crew ??? would
they?
Sorry about the file, try a .docx for size
-
An interesting chart. Every ship I've been on, when they send
anyone to hospital the sick list numbers immediately drop. So I'd
guess they are only the onboard invalids.
-
Hi all -
I have been working on HMY Warrior (since it is in
my back yard, so to speak ;D) and I was curious as to the exact US
Naval Hospital the flu victims were sent to, so I contact the US Navy
Medical Corp historian's office and spoke to one of them -
The
name of the hospital was in fact US Naval Hospital and it was located in
the Foggy Bottom area of DC. The buildings are still in use as
administrative facilities for the Navy and the quarantine building was
#6 (the buildings were numbered, not named) as is in fact used by the
Historian's office. That is were the sailors who were sent there
would be placed.
Kathy W.
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Hi all -
I
was curious as to the exact US Naval Hospital the flu victims were sent
to, so I contact the US Navy Medical Corp historian's office and spoke
to one of them -
Kathy W.
Good on you, girl!
Is there any government/military department that you have not yet contacted?
If there is one, the people there will be sad that they've been overlooked.
-
;D
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After extracting data from the logs of Warrior for October to
December 1918 when she was in Washington DC I can reveal that in all
probability the sick list figures recorded in her logs over this period
included crew who were in a US Naval Hospital, not just the one
identified by Kathy in Washington. 3rd Engineer, Warrant Officer
R. Russell rejoined from a US Naval Hospital in Las Animas, Colorado on
November, 29th.
In the main the daily figures seem to have been
posted about noon with the figures being altered if someone was
discharged or rejoined in the afternoon and consecutive pages being
consistent with the exception of one log keeper.
Presumably somewhere in ?King?s Regs? the correct procedure will have been defined.
I
have not been able to determine the manning levels so the likely impact
in percentage terms remains unknown, the effect on morale must have
been dramatic with five recorded deaths over the period.
Inevitably
the exercise has lead me along a number of murky avenues which I will
try to write up when I can make sense of them. I have already
posted one because it is not entirely clear that 100% complete means
what it implies.
lgb
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Good on you, girl!
Is there any government/military department that you have not yet contacted?
If there is one, the people there will be sad that they've been overlooked.
That's just darned good investigative work, I say.
-
I can't help myself - I got the research jones on ;D
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3rd Engineer, Warrant Officer R. Russell rejoined from a US Naval Hospital in Las Animas, Colorado on November, 29th
Since
Las Animas, Colorado is 1600 miles (more than 2500 km) away from them
in Washington, DC, they must have been dealing with a case of
tuberculosis, not influenza. I cannot see transporting a fevered
and very man that far. I found a Word file online (Locations of Historical TB Sanatoriums in Colorado) that gave this description of the place:
Fort Lyon/ US Navy VA Hospital #80, Las Animas:
According
to Lavonne Garrison of the Pueblo VA Nursing Home, this agency was
started a few miles East of Las Animas at Fort Lyon. Ms. Garrison
was going to send additional information about Fort Lyon, but it didn?t
arrive in time for me to include it in this report. Fort
Lyon was originally established in about 1860, as an Indian fort and is
now a historic site. In 1918, the VA took over a large TB
Sanatorium there and turned it into a TB Sanatorium for Navy
veterans. This site was listed in the available NTBADS. A
big complex of buildings was created as part of the Sanatorium and VA
hospital. The facility is currently owned by the state, and is a health
care facility for the State Penitentiary system, used primarily for
older or ill inmates.
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A summary of the events on HMS Mantua during the Spanish Flu
outbreak has been posted to the ship's thread, here:
http://forum.oldweather.org/index.php?topic=729.msg39562#new